Incredible Exploits of Nothing
Created on: July 30th, 2006
http://drdino.activeforjesus.com/videos/seminar1_300k.wmv
http://proveevolution.ytmnd.com
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The only reason this is controversial is because we're CURIOUS as humans. We FEAR the unknown. We HATE those who oppose us. And as this fad has shown, we LOVE to argue. This definately makes me SAD. Whether you believe in logic or faith, there is one thing that holds true for us all... we want to know the truth. To each his own path, and HOPEFULLY we'll all find out one day. Just be GLAD that today you get to ENJOY a Double Whopper from the King or a Big Mac from Ronalds place.
mmmk, Here dude, it's not that we live just by chance, we live because of what happened. Don't look at it as "Humans are lucky to exist, if one thing was different..." Think of it as "Things happened this way, so the next progression in events is..." You can't put a cap on a building, if you don't have a building. The cap isn't the soul part of the building, things just led to that. Humans arent the soul part of the universe, things just led to us. It has nothing to do with chance.
In the words of Lex Luthor - WRONG! Something did not come from nothing, nothing has a beginning because matter cannot be created nor destroyed, so everything has existed for an infinite amount of time. Due to the infinite time involved, it would be infinitely unlikely for something like Earth not to exist at some point. Evolution is just common sense - mutation occurs, and over such time scale as this - it makes perfect sense that, in competition with each other, animals would become what they have.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
-Albert Einstein
What is science? Revealed truths about the world.
What is Theology? Revealed Truths about God.
What's more important? God.
Sir Isaac Newton probably impacted science more than any other figure. He studied physics for 10 years, Theology for more than 30.
Given infinite space and infinite chance, it's a cerainty that every possibility would occur, this is one of those possibilities. You don't credit magic or divinity everytime you roll double sixes in monopoly, it just happens sometimes, it's probable that it WILL happen at some point. Although it's possible it would never occur if you rolled the dice forever, it's more likely that it will occur as the chance of double sixes never occuring at some point in infinite rolls is almost 0.
The notion that we are the only beings in a nearly infinte univerese , let alone galaxy is extremely foolish one. the more science advances the more god loses ground. once god was in charge of the sky and sun and created the world flat. now he passively created the univerese zillions of years ago? the word of god is simply the word of man always has been.
I just registered to comment (lol that important)
Good effort. The earth was not as it is currently when life started. Cyanobacteria had to spend a few million years converting the atmosphere into the nitrogen + oxygen + water rich one we know today. I didnt register just to point that out though, it seems like a silly comparison though. What is more likely? A series of explanable cause and effect events leading from the big bang til current day, or an infinitely large, powerful and important creator?
1. There was not space for the universe to expand into. Space itself expanded.
2. Dolphins are not fish. They are mammals, just like us.
3. The science behind evolution tells us that birds did not come from mammalian ancestors.
4. Birds are animals. So are fish. And dolphins.
5. Nice how "one or two humans" came up with this creationist nonsense, just another product of the christian idea of always being the persecuted underdogs, which is utter nonsense. If anything, scientists are the underdog in this
Wrong. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. The way you worded everything made it sound like evolution is just crazy talk! And the idea that there was some sort of super inteligent force behind creating all of us isn't crazy nor obsurd in any way, shape, or form. Goddamn religious nuts.
Re: "Time can't be infinite" jargle: There can't possibly be an infinite number of integers less than zero, because if there were, and we started counting them in ascending order, there qould be an infinite number to count before we got to zero, so we'd never get to zero, and so there'd be no such thing as a positive number. Therefore, there is a finite number of negative numbers. I dare you to name the lowest.
Also, all your "coincidences" are explained away by the anthropic principle. If a guy wins the lottery, is it a miracle? No, of course not. It's just dumb luck. It's only a miracle if it happened to ME. :P Given that we're drifting among trillions upon trillions of stars that *didn't* turn out to support any life, I'm not particularly flabbergasted that the necessary conditions came together on this particular planet.
Peterguy, as myself being a catholic, you offend me. You sponsor your site to try and shove the christian faith down others throats. It's people like you who give religion a bad name. I fsomeone disagrees with the christian faith let them, "Judgement is for me says the Lord". Iam sick and tired of people like you giving organized religion a bad name.
It may be that the big bang theory, evolution, quantum physics and gravity is all a load of bullspit but lets just say that the view here is correct that something did indeed appear out of an absolute nothingness. How the f88k does that mean theres a god that has creates a heaven, a hell and cares a damned bit about how how people act morally and immorrally and should get down on their knees and worship him because he's the all-powerful, all-seeing, all-knowing tyrant.
The difference between science and religion is if someone puts forward an alternate hypothesis it will be considered at least by the non-academic community, think how the string theory revolution has gathered pace over the last decade or so. Religion will remain in a static phase blindly clinging on to old ideals because a book says so, books that are largely put together a few centuries since the original messengers/sons of God departed.
This YTMND makes a complete strawman of the theories and hypotheses proposed for the origins. It demonstrates a lack of knowledge on the big bang, a surprising lack of knowledge on the affects of gravity to form planets, plays an outdated and disproved early hypothesis of the origin of life instead of the current Early World RNA Hypothesis and makes a complete strawman of Evolution, posing Lamarkism instead of Current Evolutionary Theory. Very poor.
As I'm reading through the posts, it appears the author's intent is to show that the universe had to come from somewhere. However, he chose a very poor way to illustrate that message using a video that Screams Creationism and is loaded with PRATTs. As for his point... One must ask whether is there is a "why" to be asked in the first place. Parsimony would have us slice off any "whys" and conclude that the universe simply exists...
You guys bashing the 'religous people' ...give it a break. This YTMND is long enough as it is, how long would it take to walk through the entire evolutionary theory? Days... just look at the point of the ytmnd. Too much happened by chance for us to exist. The bible isn't used to refuse science, thats what the CAOTHLIC CHURCH used it for.
basheron: No, that's what you get when you reverse engineer a probability.
The fact that the universe lead to the development of life and Evolution to Human beings is the only significant point here, as any universe born this way would lead to the development of systems and planets. Even then, the fact that life formed and formed this way indicates nothing about design, as there is no repeatability in the measure. To indicate interference, one must see the process of abiogenesis play out numerous times..
Lol half of you people saying "learn 2 science" probably know just as much as the site creator does: these kinds of sciences are complicated beyond belief for most people. I'm just glad I take comfort in knowing that we really know nothing at all, while still take the time to figure something out along the way. Let the sheep fight about the things that don't matter in the least.
Have you ever read "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection" by Charles Darwin? I would strongly suggest you read it, if only to gain a better understanding of the counterpoint. Darwin takes great care to outline his hypothesis, and then goes to great lengths to support it. The section on the Galapagos Finch's truly is fascinating. I really hope that you didn't make this just to antagonise people (Sonic says That's no good.)
Best luck.
I fived this because someone actually decided to make a point with a YTMND. I kept expecting to see "And then one day, something stole nothing's bike" or "and one day the great owl descended and delivered unto us the great inquiry 'O RLY?'" I'm glad you didn't go for a shock at the end, but NEDM would've been pretty damn funny.
As much as I hate to make this point, because it would be a fear tactic. When you are sitting on your death bed, would you rather hold onto your belief that there is no afterlife, dismiss all religion as just pure garbage used to control people, or take the chance that there is a God and put your faith in Him?
ICN001:"the former. people die and rot. those that were born randomly pretty, get to reproduce beforehand. the end." The body will die but the Spirit will endure forever.
And for the people seeking physical proof and evidence, it would be just awful if you were to actually open a bible and read a passage, there are numerous prophecies and revelations that do match up with events recorded in history such as Alexander the Great's conquest and the fall and rise of Israel.
Dear Christian,
You're probably a great person. If you're like most Christians I know, you're charitable, moral, dedi-
cated to your family. You care about people. You recognize that none of us is perfect, but you try to
be as good as you can every day. It's likely that you're quite intelligent and curious about a variety of subjects. You're the kind of person anyone might want to talk to, if the opportunity arose.
Imagine that a man approaches you and requests a conversation. With great urgency, he tells you
that aliens are communicating with him via secret messages encoded in the daily newspaper. Con-
cerned for this man's well-being, you try your best to convince him that these aliens are in his imagi-
nation only, and that the daily newspaper shows no real sign of containing encoded messages. But it
doesn't matter. The schizophrenic man has an answer for everything.
You start with the premise that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Or something close to that.
Perhaps you use the word "inspired" instead. It doesn't matter, any more than it matters what particular kind of code the aliens use to communicate with the schizophrenic man in the example above.
The problem is, you start with this astounding premise, and it pollutes every one of your conclusions. That's why it is futile for us to have a conversation.
Which is not to say that you do not gather evidence and employ reason when it doesn't get in the way. You may even have developed considerable skill at making certain of your conclusions appear as if they are not the product of your central delusion. But so has the alien-obsessed schizophrenic
man; this skill only means that the pointless conversation takes longer.
last time i checked, "prophecies" are only valid when written _before_ the event they predict actually happens? and not like the Bible, hundreds of years, and thousands of revisions later?
here is a prophecy: Darth Vader is Luke's father. i swear, i knew this in 1950. i will even write it down for you, right now.
Out of all the posters here, how many of them do you think have even opened a Bible? If you want to know something you go to the source do you not? I mean its not going to magically brainwash you and force you to believe what you don't believe to be true. And the stronger your argument against it would be when you know what a Christian truly believes.
Out of all the posters here, how many of them do you think have even opened Dune? If you want to know something you go to the source do you not? I mean its not going to magically brainwash you and force you to believe what you don't believe to be true. And the stronger your argument against it
would be when you know what a Fremen truly believes.
"Uh, like God is omnipotent and stuff and he created the universe because he felt like it. Then he made a man by blowing his nose on dirt, but the man was horny. Ignoring the fact that God made the entire universe out of nothing, he needed a rib to make the woman. Ignoring once again that God is like omnipotent, he was surprised they had disobeyed him by eating a fruit after being tricked by a talking snake. Who needs science when you have hard facts. Damn thinkers."
"Oh yeah, like God then turned people into salt for looking at a burning city and wanted to flood all the world, but he wanted the animals saved so he had the best guy on the planet make a crappy wooden boat to hold all the thousands of species of animals from around the world until the flood stopped (where did the water go, lol!?) NE way, like even the saltwater and freshwater marine animals magically survived."
"creationism is something you're tought as a child so you see no reason to question it." It is important to question your Chrisitanity, to ask yourself do you believe what you are told? To check if you are being led down the wrong path (btw yes churches can be wrong and fall from the path, thats why it is important to know what the Bible's message is and that there is evidence to support a claim.
"creationists should be denied flu shots and should be always treated with the same antibiotics. because bacteria and viruses dont evolve, right?" I think this is an attempt at saying, if you believe in a religion you wholly reject science in every form and think it is evil, not true I do believe in both natural selection and evolution to an extent, such as a species gaining certain abilities that help them adapt to an environment, but i do not believe that a new species can come out of an older one.
btw in case you haven't noticed, the catholic church has many beliefs and practices that are no where mentioned in the bible, the idea of worshipping saints as an example, and no im not trying to offend catholics i am just trying to say it is found no where in the bible, Saints should be revered for their dedication but never prayed to, im pretty sure that is God's job.
Before I stop caring again, I think it's funny how ytmnd promotes free speech and doing what you want, but then you all turn into the nazi one star fascist Atheist movement whenever someone comes up with radical never-before-thought-of views like "Hey, what if someone created the Universe?" Holy f*ck, no one has ever thought about that before! Oh, and why are all you Atheists so f*ckING angry?
UberAlbino: I spent 18 years having it read to me every sunday, and going to a vareity of retreats both in state, out of state, and lets not forget the time spent in the youth group. No, you're right, it doesn't magically brainwash people. It's just a book like any other book. Nothing really that special about it. The brainwashing comes from evangilists, parents, and the general practioners who do everything they can to entrench young children into it before they're even smart enough to question it.
Please point out to me in "The Origin of Species" or any other relevant evolutionary biology reference where it claims to show the cause of life. You won't, because the aim of evolution isn't to claim "nothing" became "something." Evolution seeks to find out not the cause but the process. Not how fish became birds, but how slowly over millions of years and situations ancestors changed slowly to become their current day forms. And as an aside, science is the "how." Religion is the "why." Keep that in mind.
That's why I think recent trend for Catholic churches to hold off confirmation until children are in high school is very ballsy and morally right. So few churches are willing to risk the $$ gain in lifetime donations to ensure the laypeople actually understand and believe their faith. My only regret is many of the people in my confirmation group feel similar to how I do but did not take it very seriously, not desiring to explore the faith at all and just doing the song and dance to shut their parents up.
an animal will not "gain" anything through evolution. every animal has mutations at birth. they are either good, or (vast majority) bad. the "bad" mutations are bad because they result in death, and failure to procreate. if being an autistic conjoined twin with no penis would make you more likely to have children, then all of mankind would be gradually replaced with autistic conjoined twins with no penis.
evolution has no goals; it is a self-justifying process, like any other natural chemical reaction.
Also, while we're on it UberAlbino. The reason Catholics follow traditions not mentioned in the bible is they believe that Peter was the first Pope, and that Popes there after follow his tradition. Matthew 16:18 - And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Although that's not the exact verse because that's form the NIV bible... which the Catholic Church does not endorce. (Catholics do not accept a version of the bible unless it has a seal showing it's approved by the Vatican.) The long story short of it is that Catholics believe that what the Pope says goes, as in it's effictively the same as god saying it. Of course... I myself agree more with the thought that all of you Christians are like crazy people looking for secret alien messages in the newspaper.
Read through about 60% of the comments, until they started running together in message. Even in YTMND this kind of subject cannot avoid debate. To anyone who thinks ill of those giving this serious thought, be happy while you have no reason not to be, enjoy your cookies, and let us ruin our health by aching over this topic. I myself am hostile to enforcement of view point in children, I was (lucky or blessed) enough to not have religion introduced to me as a child. Cont-
I see life as it is, as some of my family have put it.. I lack 'hope'. I see the dark, the sad, and the painful in the world. The only reason I doubt God's existence is because if he sees what I sees, then why hasn't Jesus come back to put an end to this nonsense? IF there EVER was a time for him to show up, this very SECOND is the time. YESTERDAY even, LAST WEEK, last YEAR. He is LATE. God can save my soul by sticking his hand out of a cloud and saying "Y hello thar!"
UberAlbino: "I respectfully disagree with your opinion" (sic: That the bible is not proof of anything.) Well then, I hope you're nice to all the Scientologists, Satanists, Hindus, Trekkies, Conspiracy Theorists, Anne Ricer Readers, and Goreans who come up to you and say their books are true and valid and your book isn't. Because any of them has about as much likely hood of being true as the Bible does.
There is no f*cking way I'm reading all these comments. And ytmnd is a terrible place to debate something this gigantic and complex because of comment size limits. But I will say this: If the universe is infinite, then everything is infinite. Ideas, people, species. There is another earth somewhere, sometime, right now, in the past and the future where I am Emporer of humanity. Bow peons.
I give it a "neat" (3), just 'cause it was funny, or at least if you keep in mind that YTMND is about laughter instead of flaming (except as it relates to *BaumsW*rld). Fav'd for all the controversy. Dude, people seriously need to lighten up. Geez, it was bad enough when there were just religious zealots [cough]inquisition![/cough], but now there's "scientific" zealots, and just hordes of random angry people, angry about other people being angry? And then there's the whole Zealot battle going on. Just so
UberAlbino: "Shouldn't
the believers be united and not squabble over the most minute details..." You missed the entire point of the statement. The several comments by AdeptOmega above very easily sum up what I honestly believe you people are like. I'm sorry, but the idea of all the crazy people who say they hear magical voices that tell them to do things all unifying together is very frightening to me.
ICN001:"Check, Mate, and Pwn - of all christianity everywhere. I amaze myself." I love how this guy believes he has dismantled christianity just because I cannot respond to his posts fast enough, if you want an awnser to that question ask a Bible scholar, im sure he would be more than happy to help you.
"but the idea of all the crazy
people who say they hear magical voices that tell them to do things all
unifying together is very frightening to me." Yes because the teachings of Jesus tell us Christians to kill,maim,murder,rape all who challenge us. Christians are not schitzo's running around hearing voices to commit bizzare crimes just because they think that it is God talking to them. Cause i will tell you right now an honest Christian will be one of the nicest people you will ever meet.
"I'll be sure to
write you a letter about it after I die. Of course I don't know. No one
knows, I only bring that up because not all philosphies hold that the
afterlife is the creation of a deity." Well then I would have to say no i had not thought of that, ill deal with the afterlife when im dead :)
Well if you look at the Bible, god has commanded his followers to commit genocide upon occasion. Then there's the long list of things done in God's name. Of course that still doesn't remove the fact that you all believe some magical invisible massless omnipresent omnipotent space alien tells you to do things... I'm sorry, but.. that's... just.. not.. right. Granted most of the time the voice tells you to do good things, but othertimes it tells you to do things like picket funerals or kill people.
btw while we are on the subject of God, Why does the mere mention of it offend you? omg the word God is in the pledge of allegiance! better take it down, o noes its also on our money, better get working on that, holyroflcopter batman it says Merry Christmas in a MAll but we don't believe in christianity!!11!!!one!!eleventy-one! Sorry had to rant a little there.
But that's just it they /are/ christians. (And they're not apathetic, becuase they're picketing and causing a fuss.) And they're just a very common example.. How about the group that wants all their members to move to South Carolina and succeed from the Union (Again) to create the Theocratic state of South Carolina. I mean, there's a big gigantic list of the crazyness that can be rolled out. How about the group trying to stop the cervical cancer vacciene because it might somehow promote promiscuity.
Or, what about the fact that last election year the biggest issue was, "OMG! Gay people whom I will never meet might marry. THIS IS SO TOTALLY MY BUSINESS! IT MUST BE STOPPED!" Beat out self defense and the economy for election issues. It's not just issolated people, it's a wide fundie net of people, and when you get down to it it always comes down to, "Well.. da book told me to.. so.. I's just does what the book says.." And if you want to get into it. I'm not offended by the word god.
In an infinitely large universe, with infinitely many combinations of conditions, at least one is going to end up making Brian Peppers. Believe what you want to believe, that's your right and your faith - but nothing in this universe is unexplainable in the absence of God. I'll give you a 2 for effort.
You know, it's easy to bash malinformed and ignorant stereotypes of Christianity as well. Creationism certainly is preferable to this "interpretation" of the purely scientific explanation. But the very suggestion that the options are only these two simply forces a choice between (in my view) two equally unlikely scenarios. I think both choices are bullsh*t. I think Peterguy is a sketchy debater and a little too full of himself. Don't like me? Good. I stand by my one. I'm sure God loves your sponsor money.
I've never stated that. The words "Under God" was never in the original pledge, did you know that? It was added in the McCarthy era because it would supposedly stop Communism. If you want to be technical about it, not, it really shouldn't be in there in the same way that an honoriffic to the President doesn't really belong in the Nicen Creed either. (And don't laugh, Gov'ts have done similar before.)
"That would mean that there would be an infinite amount of time before now, making now, impossible to happen, but it is happening, right now. The only explanation is that time is not eternal and that it was created." This is not true. The concept of infinity is only imaginary in systems governed by Newtonian physics and classical mathematics. Scientists don't believe that time extends infinitely in the negative, but the nature of infinity does not inherently prevent that.
omg i just read everything. "the catholic church has many beliefs and
practices that are no where mentioned in the bible, the idea of worshipping
saints as an example, and no im not trying to offend catholics i am just
trying to say it is found no where in the bible, Saints should be revered
for their dedication but never prayed to" lol we don't worship saints, we pray to them so they can pray for us. we implore their intercessions.
Well my comments are buried way up there, but first off,(1) Five for donating a lot of money to YTMND. You help us all continue to make our dumb little sites. (2)this is very similar to Douglas Adams "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" so had you concluded this presentation with the "BABEL FISH" confirming Intelligent Design, rather than the scriptures, this would have been better recieved and had some LOLs to boot. (3) I highly doubt "Infinite Monkeys/Infinite Typewriters can create Shakespeare."
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