Why God Exists (Updated with Q and A at the end)
Created on: September 7th, 2006
WARNING: My comments are NSFW. Please evaluate and vote based on the merits and quality of the YTMND not based on your religious standpoint. If you have an objection, post below and I will address it in the YTMND at the end.
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Nice try, but you suck at the logic.
If your system of beliefs depends on stuff like that, then it's doomed to fall apart as soon as you realize that you're talking bollocks.
But hey, we all went through that. It's called being 13.
Also, this is nitpicking, but time, matter, and space are actually the same thing, and not some kind of "trinity".
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jesus people. why do you all insist on hearing a great argument like this, then voting it down automaticaly, or being dumbasses and try to say something to make us believe otherwise of what we already think. myself, i think this is pure genius, i totaly agree with him. and so do other people. deal with it you *ss hats.
Alright, I decided to read that massive barrage of text and feel-good music... The one thing I am thinking is this: If you really want to rationalize sh*t out, you should never assume something (the existence of god) then try to prove it. A more rational way would be to look at the evidence present, and then determine the conclusion. If you cannot come to any conclusion, don't assume something then build up a buncha weak evidence to support it, collect more data. Your argument , I find, is quite assuming and jumps to the same conclusion that a bunch of ancient people 2,000 years ago did. Nice try though.
"jesus people. why do you all insist on hearing a great argument like this,
then voting it down automaticaly, or being dumbasses and try to say
something to make us believe otherwise of what we already think. myself, i
think this is pure genius, i totaly agree with him. and so do other people.
deal with it you *ss hats." We beg for arguments like this so we can tear them apart like packs of hungry dogs. I thrive on sh*tty presumptious arguments such as this.
Please do what max says and
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND G
Please do what max says and GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
Please do what max says and GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
Good job at doing a "god existed" ytmnd. Too bad it's a ytmnd. You aren't going to change the minds of most people at ytmnd because most of these people are narrow-minded smartasses that think that they know all the answers and that they are smarter than anyone that believes in a religion. Your sight will probably have a lot of downvoters because of this. Oh well, good job at being a rebel and going against the masses!
BTW scientists and physisicts have actually mathmatically proven there to be at least 10 dimensions, 4 knowable (using human senses), 6 unknowable. Hmm...
Also, post-modernistst love to state that "everything is relative" and that "there is no absolute truth." Think about those statements for a while and realize the error in logic
Please do what max says and GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
Please do what max says and GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO
YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND GTFO YTMND
@Metalocalypse: I can think of nothing more narrow-minded in the world than religion (with the exception of a few, more intelligent Eastern religions). Shoving the belief of a Supreme Diety and hating everyone that doesn't have the same imaginary friend as you is a lot less narrow-minded than downvoting presumptious bullsh*t like this.
Listen to the other guy, who used actual logic to gun down your points. in every rebuttle he made you replied with silly things like "twisting my language make everything more dificult to comprehend." no, twisting your language doenst do that. it makes you look like a dumb sh*t because ytou dont know how to reply to it..
another thing you dont understand is that matter and space dont cause time, energy does, which in your arguement i believe you purposely left out. The cause of energy you are unable to explain. so there off, "God" you are unable to explain.
the other guy owned you.
Well it makes complete sense to me. I've had a similar theory, scientifically there is a God. The force that created the universe, being space, time, and matter. And like he said, the force that created those is not bound by what it created. So in a sense there is a God, a creator of the universe. But if so, who is to say that the force that created this is A) sentient or B) has a vast kindom with angles known as heaven (or whatever other religions use to define a god and his kindom). So in a sense, there is a God, but not in the same sense as religion uses to define a deity. So basically God, in theory, exists, but is not an all knowing, sentient, loving, caring being. At least it is unlikey so which boils down to a new wrapper for the same endlessarguement. The force is there, but is it God? You can say yes, it is god. Or just as easily you can say no, it is not god but rather, something new. A new scientific force yet to be defined.
Just throwing it out there, General Relativity shows that Space and Time are intertwined to the point where they can be called the same entity (hence the usage of the word Spacetime). Of course it is altogether possible that God was the catalyst for the Big Bang, but as we understand physics today, it is impossible to really predict what happened at the big bang. At a level where matter is so infinitely dense as in the case of the beginning of the universe, the laws of General Relativity break down. Until a Unified theory of Quantum Gravity is created and generally verified, we wont know for sure what the universe began as. On a more related note, theres no use in asking what came before the universe anyway. Its like asking whats north of the north pole.
Based solely on the quality of the YTMND you get a 2. -1 for making my head explode; you almost had a 3, dear :( As for the message, can't say I find your argument air-tight, but I don't need to get into it, seeing as you already have enough of that going on. You get a cookie for not throwing fire and brimstone at my face at least. D:
maybe because this opinion has real consequences, and is being justified by clearly flawed arguments. it is like if made an ytmnd titled "why all mexicans are useless".
besides you can't use the laws of physics/logic to justify something that doesn't follow them. freedom of speech means your BS may get a response; it does not say the repsonse has to be positive or proportional.
I'm 1'ing this, since Whetstone is quite capable of proving he is nothing more than an arrogant and ignorant moron whose singular purpose in life is to shove his beliefs down other people's throats. Even if your argument HADN'T been utter BS, and even if you did undoubtedly prove God is real, I still wouldn't become a christian, I'm entitled to a belief, and I choose to believe Religion is BS. Kindly take your pro-God propaganda to somewhere where it's welcomed. I don't mind people having religions, it's just arrogant f*ckers like you who think it's right to shove that belief down everyone else's throat. I just HATE the arrogance of bible-bashers. They're a fine example of people who should be exterminated, they do a sh*t job of supporting their religion.
This is not prosteliting. It is a stated opinion and his explaination of his reasoning. IF he goes posting a link to this ytmnd around the internet, then it becomes prosteliting.
If you disagree, then go away. You chose to click on the page, you chose to keep watching.
If there was a PTKFGS of this ytmnd (inverse opinion, ie god absolutly cannot exist), then this page would not be getting this kind of negative attention. Sounds like instead of realizing probabilities, a lot of you idiots simply dismiss and downvote out of stubbornness or lack of reasoning. That is no better than the religious ultraconservatives who refuse to believe a shred of science unless it works in their favor. They have closed minds to new information, and so do you.
KATE MONSTER
Morning, Brian!
BRIAN
Hi, Kate Monster.
KATE MONSTER
How's life?
BRIAN
Disappointing!
KATE MONSTER
What's the matter?
BRIAN
The caterine company
laid me off.
KATE MONSTER
Oh, I'm sorry!
BRIAN
Me too! I mean, look at me!
I'm ten years out of college, and I
always thought -
KATE MONSTER
What?
BRIAN
No, it sounds stupid.
KATE MONSTER
Aww, come on!
BRIAN
When I was little
I thought I would be...
KATE MONSTER
What?
BRIAN
A big comedian
on late night TV
But now I'm thirty-two
And as you can see
I'm not
KATE MONSTER
Nope!
BRIAN
Oh Well,
It sucks to be me.
KATE MONSTER
Nooo.
BRIAN
It sucks to be me.
KATE MONSTER
No!
BRIAN
It sucks to be broke
and unemployed
and turning thirty-three.
It sucks to be me.
KATE MONSTER
Oh, you think your life sucks?
BRIAN
I think so.
KATE MONSTER
Your problems aren't so bad!
I'm kinda pretty
And pretty damn smart.
BRIAN
You are.
KATE MONSTER
Thanks!
I like romantic
You do prove a good a point on how there must be a God and I respect that. If there was a God as according to the Bible however, that God should and would give us more evidence of who he is, instead of a book that could've been written by anybody. E-mail me sometime I like talking about these things. I do believe however the point you made on this is very very good, except the Trinity thing, that only partains to God, the Son and the Holy Ghost, not necessarily physical things.
Also... We can't prove who God says he is, We can only prove the existance of him. But even in of that we could flip it around and say, why can't matter have existed forever. Technically matter cannot be destroyed.... But this brings me in a circle once again, trying to say well this could've happened and this could've happened, and that's why I'm agnostic. The only real thing we can bow down to is the Question Mark, because no matter how much the Bible says about God, it doesn't give us specific evidence to know.
And speaking about the Bible... If God loved us, why would he birth us into a world where we would die and go to hell. You can say that he sent his son, but if he did, he deserved to die for us, because he put us here. We never asked to become sinners and we get blamed for it. The only person who could get blamed for it is Adam... So that can show that the Bible teachings are also f*cked up. I ramble on, but I grew up fundamentalist, so when people press their beliefs on me it pisses me off.
my favorite part are all the people who say "OMG humans cant understand the universe so this site is dumb!!" and yet one of the most recent editions of TIME magazine is all about SCIENCE trying to uncover the beginning of the universe. ignore all the people who went straight to insulting you without even attempting an intelligent rebuttal. those people are all idiots. i was actually thinking about docking a star for the way you apologized to Max. he didn't deserve any apologies. but i must five because this is a phenomenal YTMND. keep up the good work.
You say this is supposed to use 'solid logic' to explain how god exists, yet you never use any such thing in the whole YTMND. All you did was add some crappy royalty-free music to some moving text, and that somehow creates an argument? I don't think so... The whole point which took you over a minute to even get to, was that the universe was caused by something, and then the rest of the YTMND is based on the assumption that God caused it... Well, no sh*t, that's what Religion is, retard, the belief that God caused the universe, if you present this as "WHY GOD EXISTS" you have to explain HOW IT IS POSSIBLE God created the universe first. On top of that, it's these stupid f*cking serious explanatory YTMNDs that are somehow trying to make a point or influence>
1. your argument is still subject to the fallacy of infinite regression.
2. What does it matter? Until God himself ways in on this argument in some irrefutable way, you won't change anyone's mind. Stop prosletizing your beliefs and respect the rights of others to believe what they will or not believe at all.
Ok... so what you're saying is that god must exsist because he was here before time exsisted so he doesnt need to adhear to the theory that you used to prove that the universe and matter was created.... you, my friend, didnt use logic. you see, you were using semantics first of all, and you based it off a thoery that, makes sence in some situations, but not all. you say that EVERYTHING in exsistence needs to be caused, this is not true that statement only works for the transfer of energy. not for the exsistence of time, matter, and everything else. for example, you can use it when speaking about a glass being knocked over, it was knocked over by something, a transfer of energy between two object, makes sence, or the example you used with the nuke.to be cont.
Max, to delete a site like this will spawn a thousand other sites on the event, and thus the topic itself. I'm sure you're well aware of that. It doesn't change the fact that you inserted a c*ck into the middle of intelligent, engaging debate (trolls not withstanding). You made a good point, that alone would have made the impact you were looking for, and would have been taken more seriously. Lay off the Grey Goose, champ. Downvoting of my sites will now commence.
it also works for things like that NEDM thing, but not for the creation of things unless you're talking about an exchange in energy that caused the formation of a new object. but it doesnt make sence in the way that you use it. you needed to actually generate your own loop hole in physics that some how makes God immune to physics and logic, you , sir have made an error in your logic, sorry, you fail. NEMD!
Why would you even bring this to ytmnd? ytmnd is a fun site where people come to laugh, not debate the existence of God. The whole site is going to be filled with ytmnd's about God now. Religious arguments are for forums, and even there, flaming runs rampant. Do you honestly believe that your flawed logic has any place on this site? For shame, whetstone. For shame.
"my favorite part are all the people who say 'OMG humans cant understand the universe so this site is dumb!!' and yet one of the most recent editions of TIME magazine is all about SCIENCE trying to uncover the beginning of the universe". YES! YES! TIME magazine, the world's most renowned authority on "science"...proving what exactly? *yawn*
You try to fit God into this Framework you've created, but you specifically exempt God from the central rule of your framework.
The Universe (or set of all "things"), you've "proven" must have had a cause (due to the Law of Causality) and God could be that first cause. But in making this statement you do one of two things.
1) fit God into your framework but exempting it from the Law of Causality, and degrading the integrity of your law (why you are allowed to do this is never justified).
2) allow yourself to pull God out of the framework of things affected by the Law of Causality, but restrict that exception to God only. This makes your law weak enough that it leaves us to wonder why the Universe doesn't have this ability.
Also, be careful using the word "proof". "Proof" has a burden of evidence upon it, and you think you can irrefutably prove something in a 5-minute ytmnd that the world's and history's best thinker, scientists, and philosophers haven't been able to in all of history? You can say "provide evidence" or "make your argument" but overstating your proof invalidates this.
Lose.
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"So it's okay for people to make stuff about Scientology, but not okay
for people to make Christian sites? If you don't like it, delete it, but
keep in mind of all the times you've had to fight freedom of speech for
this site (i.e. Scientologists). It's hypocritical." Thankyou. He needs to jump down off his throne and realize he's just another person who runs a site, not some higher-power that can say watever the f*k he wants.
Max I'm seriously disappointed. I haven't been using YTMND for long but I did get the impression that this was a site dedicated to freedom of expression. It really is a damn shame that someone who believes in God doesn't get the same treatment as someone who likes cake or snakes on a plane. The man is making an argument of logic, and you're going to treat him like he's making a YTMND about how "God hates f*gs?" I'm truly ashamed to have donated money to you. And I don't care if he believes in a Christian God or a Muslim God or a Jewish God or a Hindu God. To all you YTMNDers: If you want to call yourself a "defender of the internets," you need to defend the internet rights of all of us, not just the ones you like, hypocrites.
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WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWWWWWWatch the whole thing before voting yeah right
I'm seeing three kinds of comments here: Pointless flames, overly agressive counter-points that rate the site based on their own beliefs, and people claiming this is "flooding" YTMND with "propaganda". Do you people even know what propaganda is? One person stating his beliefs plainly on a specific page of a website that no one is forced to watch is hardly propaganda, and certainly not "flooding".
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Well this proves that there was a first cause of the universe. However, it doesn't prove God per se. Simply a cause. God implies a conscious being, a cause is just, well, a cause. True, there was a cause that was outside of the laws of physics, but that doesn't mean that it was brought about by a conscious being. This is some good philosophical stuff, though.
Interesting YTMND, and it has brought a lot of dirt in motion. I have a couple of questions and comments and I'll try to keep them as 'grown-up' as possible, since I've been known to get childish over said arguments, if it happens, I apologise. First of all, I'd like to ask if you know how much energy the universe contains and if you know the actual formulae for thermodynamics in space and time. I take it these formulae are on the site you referenced, I didn't take the time to look there yet, I might do it. The point of the question is how can you be so sure, if the universe was infinite, it should've ended before now? You simply cannot say this on the data we currently have. Also, if god didn't come into being he doesn't have a cause, right? (continues)
So, why (not who) is god? in other words, what is his purpose? Does he HAVE a purpose? Next question: Does god exist in the frame of time, space and matter? Because if he doesn't, how do we 'get to him' (heaven)? Rephrase: Could you think of valid arguments for the (non)existence of a heaven or something alike? I shall refrain from voting until these questions are answered in some way. Thanks in advance for looking.
the stupid thing is you say "this is a difficult concept to comprehend", well, it really isn't, it's actually overly simplistic. You don't consider alternative explanations, such as forces in the universe that have yet to be identified that could lead to one big casual loop. I'm not saying god doesn't exist, I'm just saying you've proven nothing. Nobody can prove the existance of god, nobody ever will, it's just not something that you can test and gather data on. It might get a more positive reaction if you weren't so arrogant to say that you can prove the existance of god because all you've done is present a philisophical idea, not solid proof. Have you ever heard of "the bulk" refered to in string theory? basically the bulk is multiple universes that...
interact with each other and in fact, such interactions are a possible cause for the creation of the universe. This is the part where I may remember wrong, but I believe the idea was that each universe is surrounded by a superstring known as a "brane" and when two of these branes interacted somehow, it caused the big bang. The point is, your idea is only one possible explanation.
Look, i know that to you all non-christians are in a metaphorical burning building of spirituality and you're trying to show us the way out, the way out is god. Well, try not to do it in such a stupid way. I'm not going to try and prove to you there's no god by talking about the bible (something which i know nothing about *hint* *hint*) so don't try to tell me there's a god. You're embarassing yourself. Next you'll be telling us Jesus is a Temporal Flux Capacitor.
This argument fails when it introduces a scientific conclusion based on authority. When it is said that the universe needs to have a beginning, the only reason given for that is that Stephen Hawking said so, and the concept of entropy. Both are scientific constructs. The argument, thus, does not solely rely on logic. Why is this a problem? Because 500 years ago, science dictated that the earth could not revolve around the sun, because that would result in wind blowing at several thousand miles an hour. Thus, the argument does not solely rely on logic, but also on falliable science.
ok I'm sick of people trying to attack whetstone for his "lack of physics knowledge" the thing is the only legit argument i've heard against the creation of the universe is rhomp's blueshift argument. to refute: ok, there are multiple big bangs. what created the first? that's what whetstone is trying to prove. the second thing i want to do is point out that HE DIDN'T CREATE THIS THEORY. st. thomas aquinas did.. and it has yet to be disproved. what happens when a model can't be disproved over the course of hundreds of years? science accepts it as a legit theory.
To all you guys saying "Explain dinosaur bones." He never said dinosaurs didn't exist. If you take the time to research, the bible even says there were times when giant beasts roam the earth, kthx. Wow. I can't get over how hypocritical you guys are. "DEFENDER OF THE INTERNETS, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT GOD!!11one"
jesus f*cking christ you are a tool. please stop posting religious propaganda on my site. the fact is, we as a civilization still think it it was a gigantic feat to land on the moon. three hundred years ago we thought the world was flat. do you honestly believe we have the mental capability and capacity required to even begin to understand the beginning of the universe, reality or consciousness? Yet you feel that by stringing a few theories together you have authoritative proof that the universe was created by "god". Feel free to waste your time with this, but don't waste everyone else's time posting controversial bullsh*t on ytmnd that anyone with half a brain could pick apart in 15 seconds. to summarize: gtfo
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Just to let you know, the only reason people believe in God is because the church tells them to, otherwise they'll suffer in hell for all eternity after they die. This is a belief that was shoved into ignorant people's minds. Idiots who are too busy thinking about not going to hell, a place that doesn't exist, that they won't think about the chance that God might not exist. It's a case of "do this or else," and people won't realize that.
F*ck you. I believe in God because of what He's done for me. I'm not here to promote God or Christianity, but I won't have people insulting my beliefs because you want to be a dick. This YTMND didn't assault any other religion, just trying to prove God exists. It was informative.
This comes from a Christian: F*ck. You.
The church tells me not to curse. I found my own interpretation to the verse that says not to curse, and it's inaccurate to what they preach. Even so, I do whatever the hell I want.
lol. Because the church tells us to. XD. I dislike Christians that are that closed minded not to interpret the bible themselves, and listen to anything but a pastor. Church is for worship, and seeing hope.
I do believe it's Christians who actually have a reason to live. Atheists believe in nothing. If that's the case, why don't they all kill themselves? "There isn't an afterlife." And life sucks balls. And yes, now I'm attacking Atheism. Christians need to stand up. "Believe what I say, or I'll hurt you."
what if the universe was just a loop? expanding and then falling back onitself just to start again? then the problem of what caused the cause that caused the cause..ect.. was solved. or what if another universe created this one by chance, that isn't god. if you want to pray to a mass of energy then you have proved it's existence. good job
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"And by the way, MasterSitsu knows absolutely nothing about Christianity.
And it only took him 11 posts to prove that." i would bet a million dollars I know the Bible better than you, as well as the actual history of Christianity and pre-Christianity stories that directly were stolen and cut/paste Jesus's name into - Dionysus, etc - a Christian that truly and deeply examined his religions history would probably come out the other end... not a Christian, or at least with more questions than the average believer would come up with in 10 lifetimes.
Matter can not be created nor can it be destroyed... Was matter created by other beings outside the universe, possiblly another demension. Was it a supernatural being? No one knows where matter comes from since it just came into exsistence.
Also Science can not really prove or disprove the exsistance of God.
Interesting webpage. I am an atheist, but I do not think this site should be censored. It is a perfectly legitimate expression of opinion. I believe it says somewhere on the site that YTMND is supposed to allow people to express their opinions. Even if I accept your argument, I still don't know that the Bible is true. Many evangelicals don't argue why their beliefs are correct; at least you posit some sort of argument.
saying that the first cause is beyond space time and matter does not fit with your causual and calmly presented logic because that is an assumption, anyways its not 1'd for content cuz i like that you presented it calmly and attempted logic, it's 1'd because in the description you said to evaluate it based on the YTMND merits and quality and as a YTMND site it belongs in the fail basket
You say that you don't want to cram your beliefs down our collective throat, yet you create your "Cries of the Infidels" site. You are quite simply, a liar. Go buy your own bandwith, pay some money for a domain name, and put this up there. YTMND is for Blue ball factories, happy cats, things ridin' spinnas, and snakes on certain objects.
Leave, or as max said, GTFO.
Wow dude, everyone hates you. Even max. That kinda sucks. If you objectively look at his YTMND, it's barely any different from others. He has plenty of funny YTMND-fad references along with his semi-serious post. The arguers and Max are pretty ignorant. Funny that Max supports the people that actively disagree with him, yet they are just as guilty as not being ytmnd-like. If you say you don't want religious promotion, you should say you don't want any promotion at all. If someone made a topic promoting the Jewish religion in this same light, you wouldn't have any problem with it, I swear.
If this was a YTMND stating "Facts" about why Judaism was the correct religion, Max would have no problem. Not talkinga bout him being Jewish, just saying it's real easy to be mad at supposedly Christian intents publically and be supported for it. Anti-scientology, hell let's add a front-page section for it. Anti-macro-evolution? OMG angry angry!
The stuff about everything having a prior cause can't apply to everything. For example, you can go to an elementary school question: Which came first? The chicken or the egg? So an egg needs a chicken and a chicken needs an egg so the chicken just existed before the egg. Therefore the universe could've just existed before everything else made.
the universe is not an effect, it was always there.if you use the causeality theory it would be why the reason the universe is made! god is not a reason! EX. why is the food on the table>? because im hungry and need to eatso i made it. not because i exist! and i doubt you can prove god exists, after so many people counldnt.nice presentation though
While it was well thought out, i found it a tad bit confusing and came out thinking, not that God existed, but that someone's head was in the general vacinity of their rectum. Dont know why, but saying that just because somebody doesnt belive that a being that controls everything and everyone ever created the universe just because is automatically an atheist just makes you seem like you're just manipulating thoughts to push an adgenda by using terms that tend to be considered 'bad'. Still, props for attempting to INTELLIGENTLY persuade.
A) I enjoy the fact that you quoted Francis Bacon who was not only the Father of the Scientific Method but also the Father of Empiricism; and yet, you use deductive reasoning in your arguements the very thing Bacon and likeminded thinkers were trying to refrain from and get rid of. Example: Everything that comes to be has a cause->Universe came to be thus it has cause->God did it. B) St. Anselm quotes "God is that [being] than which nothing greater can be conceived." And yet you're are not only trying to prove "why", but "how" and "for what". If you can conceive something no higher than the almighty Lord you believe in, why are you trying and how can you do so? Also if you consider Dieism, does it really matter if he exists or not?
So causality says that everything act has some act that caused it, and the causing act had a causing act, etc. So, if you had a First Act or whatever, why doesn't this act have an act that caused it, and why does the chain suddenly stop here? That would stop the infinite chain, and disprove causality. Kinda like the unliftable rock idea.
I have one LOGICAL question. If the cause theory is true, and ALWAYS true, what caused the first cause?
My friend, you have dug yourself into a deeper hole. Now shut the f*ck up, and do as I said before, but with an addition. Go have gay sex, rob a bank, kill someone in the process, then kill yourself, that way not eve HITLER will see you in "Hell" because hell be a "circle" ABOVE YOU.
You know very little about quantum mechanics or any of the recent theories of the univere's mechanics. 1. Space and time aren't two different things 2. the beginning of time was a singularity- the laws of math and science do not apply to it. Black holes are the same way. ergo, you could also say that the universe was just a relly big black hole that exploded. 3. the uncertainty prinicple states in a roundabout way that god can't know everything. look it up. 4. I hated the scientology site too.
Unbelievable. Does anyone badmouthing max have any idea what the bigger picture of this was? Ya know... people constantly making religious (blatantly Creationist) ytmnds and getting themself-err... their buddies to sponsor their sites so it would show up on the front page? The fact that people think Max is angry at religious ytmnds is hilarious... Annoying agendas are what's at root here.
If skeptics were allowed such cop outs, this entire debate could be settled by saying 'The universe was formed by the Big Bang. To ask what caused the Big Bang is not a valid question because the nature of the Big Bang is that it required no cause.' Oh, btw, if you didn't notice I just took your logic and replaced 'God' with 'Big Bang'. Next time don't try to use science in a proof of religious beliefs. It only succeeds in making people sad at the misinterpretation and butchering of scientific concepts.
uh... how do you know the physics we have currently is completely correct. what if its not.. then your whole argument proving god exists fails. humanity has been wrong in science before, and certainly has been wrong in religion before. anf if u want to make a difference or convert people or make a statement, find a new way to do it besides making ytmnd's. +1 for having a little nedm humor.
Well, I'm not going to say anything about the laws of thermodynamics etc., but you mention in your ytmnd that the "Primary cause" is something that "sounds alot like god to [you]". I guess what I'm asking is how do you know what god sounds like? Why would you assume that your "Primary cause" is the same thing your bible has described?
I like to use a metaphor related to the Judeo-Christian view. The universe is a game of The Sims. An installation on a hard drive (if you will) Now I'd like to ask you several things: Are your Sims aware of you or your world? Does their time revolve around yours? Are you in control, especially if you decompile & reprogram the game? Would the Sims ever have any way of knowing how & when they came into existence? They're limited to their own world of reasoning & can only do what they're programmed for.
I'd also like to point out the interesting parallel of controversy to George Lucas mangling his own Star Wars creation & the outrage (both quantity & quality) taken from it. Only important things cause controversy. Now I'm not expressing a view into any individual point of view here, I just thought these were all funny comparisons. (Plus I like the idea of comparing Star Wars or Lord of the Rings to religion...)
What the hell, I WILL make a real statement: MULTIPLE points of view work from a logical standpoint. There's only 3 or 4 that work in their entirety (no, scientology isn't one of them =( oh well) holding up throughout all scrutiny, but I must say, that's one HUGE lottery the Uniformitarianists won. Good thing they get infinite tries, right? If I were a Uniformitarianist I could be living in PTKFGS right now...
I originally wrote out like an essay here, but this comes down to it. There's no way to explain existence so we.. (a) Choose something to believe in since theres nothing else to explain anything (God) and (b) Believe that existence is basically meaningless, and doesn't even exist in itself. or (c) Realize that there is no way to know for sure, so just live life and accept the unobtainable information. I prefer c, why spend time arguing about why life is what it is so much that let your own life pass you by.
For starters, here's a big fat 1 for preaching on YTMND again. Also, if you want to hinge the entirety of God's existence on the idea that all things must have a cause, then you're stuck with the infinite paradox "What created God?" Also, the idea that the cause of the universe must be completely independent of space and time is falsely assumed, because it ignores interaction with multiverses, that the matter we have has come due to a fluctuation in quantum state. Obviously, this thing is full of holes.
While according to the theory of causality, the universe would have to have a cause, you can't say for a fact that that cause is a thinking entity (otherwise known as God) who pulled the strings. If you're going to make a claim, the burden of proof is upon you to support your argument with more than philosophy.
-4 for having a close-minded view that the only thing that could've been the cause of the Universe was God.
+1 because you actually used better methods of arguing than the average Christian
Pompous. Patronizing. Lazy. So Nice of You to scatter your pearls among swine. You obviously have bought into the theory that time exists. Also that man is more than a species of monkey that denies reality and has to have some special "GOD". And then you wrap it all up with the statement "The First Cause sounds a lot like God to me." Pretty lame.
I exist and then I don't. I'm not afraid of it, everything does it.
Your argument is pointless. All you prove is that some unknown cause was the start of the universe - this is what scientists have been saying for years. You have not proven the existence of God. There is no proof of continuing intervention by that cause. Hence there is absolutely no reason to waste time worshipping that cause. It's similar to worshipping your father's sperm because it created you. Next time search beyond your freshman physics and ethics textbooks for a way to live a good life.
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