MORE Circular Reasoning
Created on: August 6th, 2006
Much thanks to the original: http://circularreasoning.ytmnd.com
Such thought provoking and asinine ytmnd's need to be lampooned.
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To Gobblock-
You seem like one of those "OH LORDY JESUS" people, who try to push your opinions and beliefs onto others. I mean, i'm a Christian- not a strong one- and respect everyone elses beliefs. You saying blind faith must be stopped at all forms... that disrespectful to everyone here who has different beliefs and religions.
Anyways, Whetstone, good ytmnd. 3 cause it was basically ripped off another, but you made your point across.
Octopusonfire: my point is, the individual must make up their own mind, or else what people believe makes the world go around turns into a popularity contest decided by who raised you. I belive in the principles of science, dont assume something is right becuase it seems that way, dont make claims you can back up, and if you dont know why something happens dont just make it up, its okay to not know everything, as long as you admit what you dont know, explain your rationale, and be willing change your mind
Of course it has. Scientists are discovering things everyday that support evidence of the evolution theory. Why haven't they found the remnants of the garden of eden? Is there evidence that the world was flooded (Noah's ark)?
Using LOGICAL REASONING instead of just believing what a book tells you is the way to go.
Besides, mass religion=fails.
I'd like to point out computer simulations for evolution that use nothing but simple survival algorithims run over simulated long periods of time produce a great deal of diversity from a cingle celled organism and so called "missing links" disappear. Most creationist arguement is that there should be more evidence of missing links; this is flawed.
This evidence, which presents no more unobstructable paths to the actual validity of evolution, has been tested more times than you could even muster...pose a hypothesis for instance...When resources are low, does a Darwin Finch beak shrink?
The answer is yes, and that is only 20 years of observation...after a thousand...a million? Billion?
Odd, you know...there are millions of things like this in humans alone...so God created this mess? It looks like he intended us to be cheaters, killers, philanderers, manipulating little social devils...
However, it also seems the emergence of memetics in our culture has created a diverse understanding or morality and pluralism...
Intelligence begets morality...we can toss the bible out the window, its run its course.
Science will never say that something is completely and utterly unfalsifiable...by definition, you are allowed to test and manipulate and study until you are blue in the face, without rhetoric, without circular reasoning...this is the scientific method.
When something passes the test of time, cannot be so easily disproved, and is accepted by such a large number of intelligent people...it becomes theory and law.
the bible spoke of a world that was the center of the universe...today most of us don't believe this...but it took nearly 400 years after Galileo was condemned before people generally accepted this as fact...
Do you want to go back believing the Earth is the center of the universe?
Argue the evidence that says otherwise?
How about some other things? Should we stone woman, rape our vanquished foes, women reduced to property, execute stubborn children, burnt offering and sacrifice of children?
Here's the difference: Science says- this is the best explanation I can come up with. I tested my theory and it always gave me the same results. Please, everyone else test this as well and if you get different results, then I am wrong and need to adjust my explanation. Religion says: Here is my explanation based off of one occurrence that I didn't actually see- someone else saw it and told me about it, and I can't get it to happen again. Don't question what I'm telling you... just believe it and have faith.
Science is a great thing. Our understanding of the world shapes evolutionary theory, where the bible shapes a Christian's understanding of the world. I don't expect a reward for believing it, as with a religious doctrine. The only reason I can possibly have for believing it is that there's more evidence for it than any religious theory.
Doesn't work as well as the christianity one, and on top of that, you just copied the other one and put Evolutionary Science in the blank.
And just because people don't believe in Christianity, and make fun of some of the more stereotypical followers. It doesn't automatically mean they believe in the *THEORIES* of science and in particular Evolution.
But enough about that. I agree that people who blindly belive in science Theories are no better than people who blindly belive in creationism theories.
Nothing wrong with attempting to flip it around, but it doesn't hold up. The thing about evolutionary texts is they're based on objective evidences and facts, whereas religious texts (like the Bible) may contain truths, but they're not objective. There is no objective evidence of divine inspiration.
"feel free to tell me that this is not what evolutionists expect us to believe?" And HOW! Most evolutionary scientists would not be troubled if you did your own research, provided it's legit, and would even be thrilled if you found that there were some imperfection in their existing models of evolution, because it would bring them that much closer to the truth.
Let me break it down for you Creationists: Creationism is Bullsh*t. Evo-theory *might* be bullsh*t, but it's the best thing we can come up with right now. And I like the Idea of omnipotent otherdimensional superbeings as much as the next bugger, but Creationism don't hold weight. God may have caused the Big Bang, stirred the protein soup that made the first single-cell lifeform, but he didn't sit down and make everything. And Don't Brand me Evo either, I'm neither. FunkyM Has Spoken. Also No Stars.
"feel free to tell me that this is not what evolutionists expect us to believe?"
Ok, it's not. Biologists (not "evolutionists" would like you to read about the evidence. Yes books are used in which to write words which describe the evidence. But asking you to read a book is not appealing to an authority.
"My friend do you realize evolutionary theory has
undergone some SERIOUS overhauls in the past 100 years?"
Yeah: the evidence for it has gotten stronger and stronger.
Here's scholarly: let's replace biology with astronomy, an equally valid scientific field. Let's replace "Evolutionary Science is right" with "the Earth orbits the sun", then "Evolutionary Science textbook" with "astronomy textbook" and then "Evolutionary Scientist (whatever that is)" with "Astronomer". And compare. Will you now claim that you don't blindly accept what astronomers tell us about the earth and the sun? Or have you made your own measurements?
So, wait... You make a ytmnd saying the original maker is absolutely f*cking stupid for believing everything he reads in a book "just because it's in a book"... But you're a hardcore Christian who.. Reads a book (the bible) and believes everything he reads in a book, just because it's in a book. You take the cake for the 2006 Hypocrisy Award, LMFAO!!
Faith doesn't change because it can't change. It would crack the backbone of religion in half, sending your little world spinning into chaos. If your God is infallible, then what he says is the absolute truth, hands-down. It will be the same forever, or it won't be the religion anymore. Science changes because of research, new ideas, and new proof. You fail, please leave the gene pool.
One day, the Non-science of Creationism is going to be ruled out completely. The problem As I see iti s that we all believe that there has to be more to life than this, otherwise what's the f*cking point of being good at all? The point of being good is that we like people, and you don't have to be Christian or even religious to do good, you just have to want to. I like the Idea of Karma, that's a reason to do good, because it is returned to you. Also PROOF DENIES FAITH.
Hey, this is very disengenuous man, VERY. Evolution has been proven using the scientific method, and if you want evidence, ask me to send it to you, because it would take me like 20 minutes ot do it in parts. Also, this whole "lets take over ytmnd" is really annoying, and quite frankly, I wouldnt care if you would do it in an honest manner.
No, WRONG. Credible evidence abounds. Independent research, verifying some things for yourself is easy. I've done experiments for myself(classroom style: pitri dish+poison=immune to poison bacteria). When you can see for yourself by experimentation, there's no circular reasoning, you draw your conclusions from your own research. PM me if you would like to talk about how to run this and other experiments yourself.
To everyone that says the evolution is "just a theory", keep in mind that a SCIENTIFIC theory has been proven many times by thorough experimentation by many different people. So many people in the U.S. have the wrong definition for theory, they think it is just an idea. Evolution has been proven and has yet to be disproved. If any evidence is found against the theory, it must either be changed or thrown out. Look up the real defintion.
There is no proof for the bible. There is proof for evololution, some would say not enough, some say enough to draw definite conclusions. But anyway, yes, blind faith must be stopped, even blind faith in knowledge others give you. I'm in training to be a geneticist, and thus I know micro-evolution exists; I've seen it. Why can't full blown evolution?
Its called the "Theory of Evolution" mainly because that's what they called it back in the day. You can actually see it happening, which is pretty cool. I mean, you can chose to not care, or even believe it, but that's no different than not believing in Allah, or that weird Shinto penis shrine dealy. Soooo, yes. I liked the one you ripped off better.
To be blind is never right, but people put research into that textbook, where was the research for the bible? Just things that god told them? Can you prove god told them such? Proof of the bible has yet to be found. Proof of evolution is significant, with only petty things that can be disproven getting in it's way. Remember the 'intricacy of the eye cannot evolve naturally'? They proved light sensitive cells could theorhetically become an eye... So the fight goes on...
you're a f*cking idiot. Believe it because scientists use empirical observations and natural laws to infer evolution, and THEN wrote a book about it. Not because they wrote a book, you *ssh*l*e. Evolution undergoes revisions in light of new evidence. That is what science is. If the facts of reality don't conform to the theory, you change it. Unlike creationism where you try to change the facts of reality to conform to your theory.
We know Evolution to be true because of the Myriad Fossil Evidence dating back Millions of years, laying out how life has become what it is today. We Don't rely on a Bookm written by a Bunch of F*cking Bronze age cavemen sitting around trying to guess the age of life, the universe, and everything. We don't blindly accept a book not even written by the religion's phophet/messiah as absolute truth, a book that constantly contradicts itself and is so anachronistic that it's a wonder any sane people still take
Anyone arguing anything from authoritarian text is an idiot. You can doubt evolutionary science as much as anything else, but like the bible its something which has to be analyzed to be questioned understood, or rejected appropriately. That being said, more observation has been done supporting evolution than confirming any of the more abstract concepts of the bible. This might simply be becuase science is based on questioning whereas religion is based on faith. I think it has more to do with application
"My friend do you realize evolutionary theory has
undergone some SERIOUS overhauls in the past 100 years?"
Um, my friend, do you realize the definition of God has gone under SERIOUS overhaul in the past 6 millenia? Does he hate homosexuality or is he infinitely loving? Do we have to hate everything or love everything to get into heaven? Do we all go to hell because we aren't perfect or does he forgive everyone for the most heinous crimes? You must realize that nobody supports evolution in this manner
Wow, just... wow. Claiming that faith is on the same level of factual validity as thoroughly researched scientific theory is the height of arrogence. I've said it before, but faith CANNOT be backed up by logic, reasearch, or any sort of fact. That's why it's FAITH. If you can't accept this basic fact about your own religion, then maybe you need to reconsider you're choice of faith.
This is not what we expect "you" to believe. Perhaps if you had read the f*cking textbook you might understand evolution and the evidence behind it. Fossils, DNA testing, simularity in animal bone structures, adaptation to one's environment dont mean anything? Naaa just look to the ancient good ole book that has no evidence at all. You're a stupid f*ckmonkey.
Oh... my... God. I just thought of this discussion: "Well how do you know religion is right?" "Because I read it in a dogmatic scripture. And dogmatic scriptures are right." "Why should I trust dogmatic scriptures?" "Because it was written by religious people!" Trust me... what I said right now is no less circular than what you're saying.
The universe is shaped exactly like the earth, if you go straight long enough you'll end up where you were. The universe is shaped exactly like the earth, if you go straight long enough you'll end up where you were. The universe is shaped exactly like the earth, if you go straight long enough you'll end up where you were.The universe is shaped exactly like the earth, if you go straight long enough you'll end up where you were. The universe is shaped exactly like the earth, if you go straight long enough you'll end up where you were.
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I hate how the concept of any spiritual god is conjoined with you fanatical zealot christians, evolution and a god theory can be together, just not in Christianity's version of god. But science is based on knowledge and testing, religion is based on claims without proof and refusal to change. Poland likes science over religion. POLAND 1!
Whet knows how I feel, But for the Rest of you: Christianity is a religion. Religion is based on belief. If you believe God created everything, then that's gr00vy. I do not belive god created everything, and I don't take kindly to anyone that would try to force me to believe (not a veiled attack). The point I take from this site is "Don't use circular reasoning to say that something is right or wrong."
The thing is, if your logic and arguments werent so horrible messed up, a discussion of religion might be possible. Unfortunatly, your "arguments" are simplified and devoid of actual information. I assume that in rl, you surround yourself with christian friends who all agree with you, since its obvious you`ve never before had any experience discussing with people who doesnt agree with you. I honestly believe that all my christian friends would shake their heads when they see what an incredibly misguided and ignorant attempt you are making to "enlighten" people about your belief.
anyone could say "well, christians rely on the bible to affirm the existence of god. they say that the bible has to be an accurate account of the nature of the universe becase it's the word of god. christians employ the worst kind of circular reasoning when they use god and the bible to authenticate and support each other."
sorry if someone else posted something like that. i'm not reading all of the comments
"To the downvoters- feel free to tell me that this is not what evolutionists expect us to believe?"
Ok, 'evolutionists' do NOT expect you to believe based upon their say so. Indeed, scientists encourage independant investigation and challenges to their hypotheses. If you had actually bothered to inform yourself about evolutionary science, you would know this.
It's actually the other way around, with your stupid bible and faith having the circular reasoning. It's completely ironic how you are defending your circular reasoning by making it seem Evolution uses circular reasoning. Only retards would respond that way that guy was doing in the ytmnd. Evolution has never had circular reasoning, it actually makes sense, has evidence, and it is actually observable (adaptation anyone?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg
Watch it. Breaks down all the ID bullsh*t, and gives concreate evidence of evolution.
The difference between ID and Evolution, is that evolution has been tested over and over again in labratories, by countless academics around the world. Show me one scientific study proving ID, and I'll take back saying its bullsh*t.
Have you taken a single biology course ever...or have you just taken religious/creationist classes...
Here's my own dialogue: "Why do you believe in the Bible? Because God said it. And how do you know God said it? Because it says so in the Bible."
Good work pointing out how impossibly ironic you can be.
at any rate, it's not like the only two possible options are creationism and evolutionary science. there is a grey area. current theories on evolutions are founded on some facts and some speculation, mixed with a lot of logical reasoning. evolutionary theory as we know it today might turn out to be a very sketchy version of what we will find out, in the future, to be a more accurate theory. at one time the Earth was the center of the universe... then it was the sun. we all know now, it is actually neither.
you're really stupid. The difference between the bible and evolution is that there's actual evidence for evolution. Representing someone who doesn't know what they're talking about does not show that evolution is baseless. But let's sacrifice the education of the children so we can present them with creation science! (aka, christian propaganda, aka bullsh*t).
Whetstone, is the only thing you're good at is spreading religious dogma across YTMND? The only reason any of your garbage got noticed is because you and your chums sponsored some of your YTMNDs so you can get on the front page. Please cut the sh*t while you're sponsorship is still ahead of the rat race and call it a day.
First of all, it's from science: the people who brought us the microwave oven, the automobile, and the space mission. These guys have a track record. Seriously, though, go read "http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html#proof" for reasons as to why a vast majority of biologists are convinced.
"My friend do you realize evolutionary theory has undergone some SERIOUS overhauls in the past 100 years?"
I've seen these apparent 'overhauls' that Christians claim lower the credibility of evolution. They include things like "Well, we recently discovered that animals actually evolve(d) at a faster pace than we previously believed." In other words, scientists make a modest hypothesis, test it, and find out that the answer is a lot more surprising than they expected.
Blind faith is just another form of blind ignorance. If anything can be said about the theory of evolution, it's that its followers accept new information, even if it might slightly contradict previous information. In this way, the theory is more credible than the Bible as it actually builds upon itself. The Bible and its supporters say "This is how it is, nothing is wrong, and if you say so, you're going to hell." Not how it works with evolution.
"Hard Evolutionary Facts?! My friend do you realize evolutionary theory has undergone some SERIOUS overhauls in the past 100 years?"
Actually, the theory of evolution has been improved, not overhauled. Being modified often is actually a sign of good scientific theory, not bad. Science, unlike religion, neither needs to nor claims to know everything.
mDNA is the only evidence I need for evolution.
Evolutionnists expect you to believe that a retarded 1 legged crab that's on fire and attracted to its predators has lesser chances of transmitting its genes than a normal crab. 3'd, because unfortunately, a lot of people support evolutionnism in the way you showed. They think it's true because someone told them it is.
There is actual evidence supporting evolutionary theory - it's called the fossil record.
And two phenomena - micro-evolution and natural selection - have been observed and demonstrated.
This makes your argument a complete strawman.
If you had the courage of your faith, you wouldn't have to present false arguments to support it.
Now you may find it inconceivable or at the very least a bit unlikely that the relative position of the planets and the stars could have a special deep significance or meaning that exclusively applies to only you, but let me give you my assurance that these forcasts and predictions are all based on solid, scientific, documented evidence, so you would have to be some kind of moron not to reaize that every single one of the is absolutely true.
Here is where I have to say that I believe that God would have given its creations the ability to fend for themselves and survive. Science has found proof of evolution. If God plopped us on the planet as we were we would have no way to survive any change. God seems to keep its powers to smaller scale events, like giving visions to man. It is up to evolution and man's God given free will to find a way to survive.
However, I agree that we should not subscribe to anything just because people say it is so.
"My friend do you realize evolutionary theory has
undergone some SERIOUS overhauls in the past 100 years?" You see, unlike the bible, science allows space for revision. There is data always being collected and with more data we get new ideas and revisions of past ones. Sure, the pieces of the puzzle aren't all there and probably won't be; however, just because it's not complete doesn't mean it should be disregarded. Science doesn't require faith, it just requires your eyes.
Are you f*cking kidding me. You, sir, are so blind that you can't even understand why some people can believe in evolution or anything that doesn't involve the divine God. Not only that, but you then make a horribly biased site to attempt to justify your views. The theory of evolution is backed with hard facts, and people like the stereotype on your site are idiots. A theory is not defined by the people who choose to blindly follow it, it is defined by those who follow it because they understand it.
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