Hypocrisy on YTMND (OMG Muhammad)
Created on: August 17th, 2006
I got this loop from the YTMND Loop Project. Thanks folks.
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Accusations of anti-Semitism can be used that way, yes. But it doesn't happen as much as the anti-Semites would like to paint. People who are notoriously anti-Semitic like David Duke (leader of the KKK) and Noam Chomsky (a Jewish anarchist and extremist on the far left) have tried to excuse their anti-Semitism by saying "They're just calling me anti-Semitic because I criticize Israel and they want to silence me." I havn't once actually seen a notable person attempt to do such a thing...
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THANK GOD THE CHRISTIAN ADOLF HITLER GASSED ALL YOU F*CKING JEW KYKES - MORE PLEASE, KTHXBAI F*G JEW THANK GOD THE CHRISTIAN ADOLF HITLER GASSED ALL YOU F*CKING JEW KYKES - MORE PLEASE, KTHXBAI F*G JEW THANK GOD THE CHRISTIAN ADOLF HITLER GASSED ALL YOU F*CKING JEW KYKES - MORE PLEASE, KTHXBAI F*G JEW THANK GOD THE CHRISTIAN ADOLF HITLER GASSED ALL YOU F*CKING JEW KYKES - MORE PLEASE, KTHXBAI F*G JEW THANK GOD THE CHRISTIAN ADOLF HITLER GASSED ALL YOU F*CKING JEW KYKES - MORE PLEASE, KTHXBAI F*G JEW THANK G
I suppose it would help if we didn't immediately turn all religion into some fad. We have our Jesus (lol), and our Scientology, and our OMG Secret Muhammad what-have you. I am not anticipating some sort of Buddhist related fad. 5'd for truth, but I am NOT happy about it at all, seeing as this was just another YTMND about YTMND. And I hate that.
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I was gonna 5 this for the message, but repeatedly equaled ordenary islam with terrorism, which is not true. If you want to send out messages like these, at least STUDY THE FACTS, and don't come up with some sterotype image of things you know little to nothing about. Unless its for fun. Which this isn't.
2'd, mostly because hypocracy is human nature, and doesn't need to be pointed out. Though I do agree that people shouldn't censor themselves due to fear (Oh noes, terrorists will kill me if I says anything about their religion!).
Also, whenever I read Ali's posts I heard Mr. Garrison from South Park.
OMFG GUYS IM POSTING A VERY SERIOUS AND THOUGHT OUT COMMENT HERE OMFG GUYS IM POSTING A VERY SERIOUS AND THOUGHT OUT COMMENT HERE OMFG GUYS IM POSTING A VERY SERIOUS AND THOUGHT OUT COMMENT HERE OMFG GUYS IM POSTING A VERY SERIOUS AND THOUGHT OUT COMMENT HERE OMFG GUYS IM POSTING A VERY SERIOUS AND THOUGHT OUT COMMENT HERE OMFG GUYS IM POSTING A VERY SERIOUS AND THOUGHT OUT COMMENT HERE OMFG GUYS IM POSTING A VERY SERIOUS AND THOUGHT OUT COMMENT HERE OMFG GUYS IM POSTING A VERY SERIOUS AND THOUGHT OUT COMME
On one hand, I agree with your YTMND that people can be hypocrites, but on the other hand when you try to say that extremists shouldn't be separated from their religion, I think you're going about it all wrong. It's all about interpretation. Muslims in the Middle East interpret the Q'uran quite differently from those in the west. I'm close with many American Muslims who are completely against violence. The problem is interpretation of the text.
This had potential, but in trying to expose hypocrisy you go way off center. Your repeated arguments that Scientology is accepted as a religion just as Islam is accepted as a cult are extremely flawed, and you know they are. You're arguing to support a point that doesn't exist. This might have been good if you put more effort into finding people who upvoted racism or bigotry against ethnic or religious groups, not against a Holywood cult.
It happens with Christianity too. There was a time when Christrians tried to use the Bible to justify slavery. And then there were those "Christian extremists" (for lack of another term) who would bomb abortion clinics because they didn't agree with the institution. Does it make it right to own slaves or clinics? No. But are all Christians like that? No. There has to be a recognition that you can't pidgeon hole everyone.
Ridiculously long, un-entertaining and un-informative. I think everyone on here realizes the hypocrisy that goes on on ytmnd; No need to make a long, boring slideshow about it. Everyone has their own opinion and they're entitled to it: That's what the internet is all about. And my opinion is that this site deserves a 1
How did this crap get on the "up and comings?" Look I didn't like that ytmnd either, I gave it a 1 since I do think it's insensitive. But self righteous ytmnds such as yours don't make anything better. People who are against the humor will downvote it and people who find it funny with upvote it and if they find it humorous then they're not likely to be persuaded by you or me.
Good site, good discussion. Personally, I believe that if the majority of Arabs had a little more affluence, instead of the hypocritically capitalistic caliphates most terrorists organization exist as controlling most of the wealth of the Arab world, we'd have a much calmer Middle East. As long as young men can see no other way but killing for a better life, for themselves and their families, than violence will continue. Equity of power, once again, is covered up by the usual excuses of racism and history.
Islam kills people as much as any other religion does. Its either "religion doesnt kill people" or "religion does kill people." Its nonsensical to single out some religions as blatently harmful while ignoring others that are equally or more harmful. Religion = belief, and beliefs always come before actions. Beliefs in a religion can cause people to do evil things as much as any other belief. Its absurd to pretend that religious beliefs dont cause violence but other beliefs do.
^btw, keep in mind more people die each year from execution and punishment via Islamic Sharia Law than from terrorist attacks. If Islam doesn't cause deaths of homosexuals being executed for being gay, or for women being raped, what does? Its not terror. The largest victims of Islam aren't non-Muslims but women and other groups within Islam.
^I've parodied Christianity too, like my FSM YTMND. And yes, Christianity has resulted in the death of as many (if not more) people than Islam. But Christianity recentely reformed itself, deaths due to Christianity are far more rare than those due to Islam today. Islam is the current problem, moreso than any other religion or cult. If the Middle East was run by Christian theocratic states enacting Biblical laws where homosexuals were executed and women were oppressed, you would hear from me about it too.
Sir, I appreciate your words and your effort to take some time out and research the issue. This whole site is pretty much based on things like racism, bigotry, or what have you, but it's all for a laugh. None of us are really serious, or shouldn't be, so it's not fair to call someone racist because of a site they make on here, because you've probably already upvoted a site similar in style.
The religion itself hasn't caused any deaths, it's the conflict of this religion with other religions. The conflict in the Middle East is much more heavy handed and severe than the conflict with Scientology. 'Circular Reasoning' makes fun of Christianity, but it also makes fun of Islam and most related religions. The Muhammad Cartoon came at an inappropriate time when thousands of Middle Easterners are dying from war. The impact of Scientology is much less relevant.
There are no religions, and there are no rights or wrongs, there are only perspectives. The way someone sees the world changes form person to person, and what they believe is based off of that. If you call someone a 'bad person' because they bombed your country, than your truly the 'bad person'. There ARE cases when people are just completely evil, doing things that are intentionaly bad (murdering for the fun of it) that doesnt fit in the statement above though.. so idk, ignore what i said lol
This conflict is clearly political and has NOTHING to do with Islamic beliefs, which are relatively similar to Jewish and Christian beliefs. The idea that Islam as a belief causes people to become terrorists is absurd. THis is about power more than anything, people use Islam as an excuse for their actions, because it serves as a powerful tool to influence others and gain support.
"The religion itself hasn't caused any deaths, it's the conflict of this
religion with other religions." - The majority of deaths due to Islam are deaths of Muslims within Islamic countries who are executed for violations of Islamic Sharia Law. Your argument that the conflict is between religions doesn't match the stats and the facts. Most human rights abuses due to Islam are within the Islamic community rather than attacks (such as terror) against non-Muslims.
Likewise, folks, Scientology is a religion rather you like it or not. That much is an objective fact. If you look the word 'religion' up in the dictionary, Scientology fits. As do virtually all cults, such as those headed by Jim Jones, David Koresh, Heaven's Gate, etc. Being a sick cult doesn't mean that it isn't a religion, as well. I think people don't realize that mainstream religions like Christianity and Islam are more involved with money, politics, and corporate life than smaller cults like...
...Scientology as well. In the Middle East we have entire governments controlled by Islam; theocratic states. In the United States, the UK, France, South Africa, Italy, etc. we have powerful corporate/political Muslim and Christian lobbies. Due to their size and acceptance as mainstream religions they actually contain more corruption and scam more people than small cults. We can attribute thousands of ruined lives to Scientology, but we can attribute millions of ruined lives to mainstream religions.
"This conflict is clearly political and has NOTHING to do with Islamic
beliefs, which are relatively similar to Jewish and Christian beliefs." - As a Jew who has lived in Islamic countries, I can tell you two things. Islamic beliefs are not similiar to Jewish beliefs despite the fact that Islam has Jewish historical roots, and Muslims do not believe that Judaism is similiar to Islam in any way. This is why in many Muslim countries Jews are not allowed to be citizens (Like Jordan) or ascribed...
^I agree. The term 'cult' in common usage has a negative meaning that is different from its lexical definition. It doesnt change the fact that virtually all cults are by definition a religion, and virtually all religions are by definition cults. People need to actually learn the meanings of words they use more often instead of using knee-jerk definitions.
Not to mention that I'm positive 90% of the people on YTMND have never even heard about Scientology before a South Park episode or reading about it here on YTMND. Its easy to pick on a minority cult that is PC to pick on and trendy, but its much harder to point out flaws in mainstream religions when it isn't PC and against the grain to do so. The people who single out tiny cults for ridicule and avoid big ones are the hypocrites and the sheep of the world. The people who are able to equally point out...
Aside from the dictionary, if we look at the point-by-point criteria of how cults are defined by groups such as ReligiousTolerance.org, Rick Ross, the American Family Association, the ISCA, Outreach Judaism, or any other anti-cult groups that are secular or religious, the type of Islam that is practiced in the Middle East is defined as a cult just like Scientology is. Its far more harmful than tiny financial cults in the United States.
In reality, cults and religions are reognized as one in the same by the entire academic world. If you've graduated high school or taken a comparative religions class in college, you should know better. If not, you're one of the ignorant masses, or the 'sheep.' I don't expect them to progress further than a superficial knee-jerk response anyway.
Well, I find YTMNDs that make fun of Helios funny, but not ones that make fun of other cell phones. That probably makes me a hypocrite. And PLEASE don't go through my votes and find out that I've never voted on Helio YTMNDs, seriously. I also have to say that saying that Islam kills people is like saying that my cell phone is at fault when I dial a wrong number. It's the suicide bombers' faults, not Islam's. And If you get pissed at Islam, you have to get pissed at the bomb itself, too.
In closing, let me say that yelling about Islam just serves to point the finger of blame at a belief system with no free will, rather than put the blame where it belongs: with the terrorist subhuman bastards that would kill innocent people. Thank you. But you can make fun of it all you want, lol. Sand-n*gg* stole ma bike!!
extreme versions of islam as interpreted by religious fundamentalists are a reaction to a need for control over nations. I will admit that Christianity has adapted over the years along with human progress, but does that make it a better religion? The fact is this cartoon was basically saying to muslims: "WTF ARE YOU GONNA DO, WE IN THE WEST ARE SOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU." I think making fun of such a serious insult is totally inappropriate. I would say its the fundamentalists who interpret islam
in an entreme way in order to push political agendas. The Islamic revolution in Iran, for instance, was a reaction to overwesternization which simply doesn't work in nations as old as the ones in the middle east. Extremists use Sharia law to enforce totalitarianism in their states, but that doesn't mean Islam as a belief system is to blame. Terrorists fight because its the only way they can fight.
"Extremists use Sharia law to enforce totalitarianism in their states, but
that doesn't mean Islam as a belief system is to blame." - This sentence sums up the hypocrisy when dealing with criticism of Islam and beliefs. Its a fact that beliefs come before actions, and that beliefs dictate and cause our actions. Sharia is Islamic law, and Islam is a belief system. Ergo, Islam (belief) causes Sharia (event). There is no other source of Sharia aside from Islam. It wouldn't exist without Islam. On a similiar..
...note, its even worse to single out Islam as the one belief system that isn't to blame. People are perfectly willing to blame poverty, fascism, extremism (all belief systems), but when it comes to Islam (belief system) they pretend that it isn't a cause of actions. For example, Islamic revolutions existed long before Westernization of the Middle East. Yet, you're willing to blame Westernization while ignoring the fact that you have no such thing as an "Islamic" revolution without Islam...
...There is no "anti-Western law" in Islamic countries that arose and exists in contrast to Westernization. There is Sharia law, based on the Koran that has existed long before a significant Western influence or any type of Westernization in the Middle East. Also keep in mind that while it is a minority of Muslims who are terrorists (even though a majority of terrorists are Muslim), it is a majority of Middle Eastern Muslims who fall into the category of "extremist." Most, while not being terrorists...
...do support violent Jihad, the terrorist groups, Sharia, extremist Mullahs, the eradication of Israel, etc. MI6, UK intelligence, recently published that 1/3 of British Muslims are, "Sympathetic to violent jihad around the world." Keep in mind, the UK has one of the world's most liberal and moderate Muslim communities, and yet a huge portion of those suppossed moderates are sympathetic and supportive of terror. Middle Eastern and Southeast Asian Muslims have virtually no real moderates.
Part of the PC cliche is to say "but not all Muslims are terrorists" or "what about the moderate Muslims." The fact is, moderate Islam represents the minority around the world. It is also a virtually brand new and small reform movement in Islam. It doesn't represent Islam's origins or Islamic history. The fact is, extremist Muslims fit the profile of what early Muslims were like, and how the Qur'an has traditionally been interpreted, more than these new reformist moderates do. Thus, when talking about...
...Islam, its actually more accurate to refer to those who are violent, who are considered "extreme", etc. because they represent both the majority concensus on Qur'an interpretation as well as how Islam has historically been. Exceptions to the rule of Islamic extremism throughout history exist, such as Sufism. It only takes a quick visit to a Sufi community in a Muslim country to see how they are treated and oppressed. Much like Jews, or the way mainstream Christians discriminate against small...
...fringe Christian cults in the United States. Even looking at 'moderate' Islamic organizations that denounce terror we can find many of the older and more liberal Islamic groups (such as Sufis) denounced as cults and not real Muslim groups. To sum it all up, Islam is the main cause of violence and terror within Muslim communities and 'extremist' (but not terrorist) Muslims represent Islam as the majority and interpret Islam and the Qur'an in the most historically accurate way.
Alright, to Laird now, "I also have to say that saying that Islam kills people
is like saying that my cell phone is at fault when I dial a wrong number.
It's the suicide bombers' faults, not Islam's." - This is an example of an informal logical fallacy called questionable/false analogy. A cell phone isn't similiar enough to a belief system to infer something about the latter from the former. Beliefs directly cause actions. Every action comes after a belief. A cell phone is not a belief, so a cell phone...
...clearly can't directly cause an action. However, Islam is a system of beliefs. Therefore, it can cause actions. Claiming Islam can't cause Muslims to execute Jews (like the Qur'an asks them to do) is like saying Nazis didn't execute Jews because of Nazi philosophy toward Jews. Yes, it is the suicide bomber's fault. He has free will to believe or not believe Islam. If he chooses to believe Islam, however, it is thus that belief (Islam) that causes his actions. Beliefs are still at fault. No suicide...
lol dude i just realied you labeled me a hypocrite. I just want to point out that yes, i suppose it does make me a hypocrite, but for the record i feel the conflict with islam is muuchh more serious because sooooo many more people are dying because of it. ANd anyway, the sites on scientology were FUNNY> the cartoon on muhammad was meant to piss people off...it was meant to insult muslims. Now as for agreeing with your points, Id say you make a lot of good points which im going to think over.
How interesting, the authors premises for this ytmnd seems to justify this blatant act of ignorance based on the hypocrisy of certain users. For the section in your ytmnd that says, "welcome to the 21st century, take off your veils and stop treating women badly, blah blah blah," thank you for proving your ignorance. clearly you do not understand that these negative images fed to you through the media are due to a patriarchal society, based entirely on culture, rather than religion.
If you even attempted to try and cease your spoon-fed bias and actually read the Quran, you would quickly realize that the Quran does not require women to be treated this way. Ask yourself, if Islam were not a factor, would terrorist acts cease? In history has a country ever laid down arms to an occupying force without a fight? You are a clear definition of a media whore, and for the record, I'm not muslim nor from the middle east, i have no interest in defending actions from either side.
Claiming Islam can't cause
Muslims to execute Jews (like the Qur'an asks them to do)... I don't even know where to start with this one. How about.. you're so full of bull it makes me laugh. First of all, the Quran is based off the Torah, they share the same god, the same main beliefs system, with minor differences. The middle east conflict is about land folks, religion is just an ideology used to recruit support and terrorists. Just like the Vietnam war (against communism)...
"Clearly you do not understand that these negative
images fed to you through the media are due to a patriarchal society, based
entirely on culture, rather than religion." - You might want to type in 'define culture' on google and see the definitions that come up presented by Anthropology depts at .edus. Culture, by definition, includes religion. You can't say "its culture but not religion." Its a self-contradiction.
"If you even attempted to try and cease your spoon-fed bias and actually
read the Quran, you would quickly realize that the Quran does not require
women to be treated this way." - Read it, multiple times. Lived in Muslim countries. Prayed in Mosques. What you consider to be 'spoon-fed bias' is my personal experience from years of studying Islam. The Qur'an certainly does require that women be treated as I've stated. But more importantly, Sharia and the various Hadiths do. The Qur'an doesn't equal Islam...
...Rather, the Qur'an is the key holy text of Islam. There are numerous others. In addition, a religion is a belief system and defined by its adherents and totality of concepts, not by one single text within it alone. Keep in mind, the 'extremist' interpretations of the Qur'an also represent the most historically accurate and majority interpretations. For example, although moderate Muslims (minority) say things like, "the Qur'an doesnt require women to wear burkas", which is true, it doesn't explicitly...
...say burkas, burkas are very old. As are chadors, veils, hijabs, and these other things that were developed based on Quranic exegesis rather than explicit statements. They have been a part of Islam for a much longer time period and represent the earliest interpretations of the Qur'an. Also keep in mind that the Qur'an is a product of pre-Islamic culture, which was cheuvanistic toward women and violent. The Qur'an certainly reflects those traits, and any historical analysis of it will confirm the same.
"First of all, the Quran is based
off the Torah, they share the same god, the same main beliefs system, with
minor differences." - The differences aren't minor. Islam teaches that the Torat (Torah) that the Jews have is a perverted and twisted version. Yes, its based on the Torah but has so many changes and differences that its remarkable. It isn't like Christianity, which accepts the Torah and then adds a new story to it. They rewrote parts of the story and filled in the gaps with pre-Islamic bedouin myt
Thats why the Qur'an contains little tidbits like genies. Its heavy influence from Christianity didn't stop Muslims from making war on Christians and Christians from making war on Muslims throughout history, either. It also didn't stop near 10 million Jews to be massacred in Muslim countries since Islam was founded. Those massacres, the number of Jews killed when there was no land conflict, refutes your claim that "its about land." Or how about the near 70 million Indian Hindus killed in India by Muslims?
You're repeating the same PC nonsense that the far left uses to defend radical Islam, Lak. Moderates don't believe this, nor does the academic world. Liberal Democrats don't and neither do Conservative Republians. Only the far-left extremist supporters do. Pretending that culture, land, fascism, and every other factor 'causes' violence but Islam doesn't is to purposely blind yourself to the fact that Islam is an ideology and belief system and that ideologies and belief systems cause actions. Islam has...
...has been the one binding ideology and belief in the Arab world since its foundation. Not 'land'; this wasn't an issue when Zoroastrians and Jews were put through genocide due to religious reasons. Not democracy or communism. Not fascism. There is only one thing that ties together every act of Islamic violence, and that is Islam. Other factors do act as catalysts, but they don't occur in every situation of Islamic violence and oppression, thus we know they are not the cause. The only belief that exists...
Now, I really find it amusing when people say "if you read the Qur'an!" Did I mention I've lived in Muslim countries? Here are some Surahs about women: Surah 2; two women are worth one man. Surah 4; men get twice as much inheritance as women do, you can take whores by force to be your wife, you can capture married women in battle and make them your wives. Surah 66; God will replace wives who question their husbands with new ones. Surah 64; your wife is your enemy. Surah 33; women must be covered...
...in public because their body is one entire genital area. Surah 33; women will be punished twice as much for being sexually immoral than men. Surah 24; if a man accuses a woman of adultery he only needs one witness, but if a woman accuses a man of rape she needs two to four. If she can't provide enough acceptable witnesses, she is an adulteress (rather than being raped) and is stoned to death.
All of the above are beliefs gained from a religious philosophy. If anyone acts on thoses beliefs, those beliefs caused that action. Every time a woman is oppressed by having to wear a burka, the Qur'an directly causes that (Surah 33). Do I need to point out what the Qur'an says about Jews, too? Like how it commands genocide in Arabia becausue "there can only be one religion in Arabia?" How about the story of Muhammad executing all of the Jews of Mecca and Medina, along with the children, then splitting...
"The religion" doesn't attempt to dissociate itself from the extremists. A minortiy of moderates do. You've just slipped into a misunderstanding of Islamic demographics when you attempt to attribute new modern revisions to a religion that has been inherently violent and extreme since its early beginnings. Likewise, I pointed out above why comparing a religion (belief system) to a gun (inanimate object) is an informal logical fallacy. Beliefs cause actions, therefore blame falls on beliefs...
...whereas a gun is not a belief; use of a gun is an action, and it comes after belief as well. Islamic beliefs, like every other belief in the world, cause actions. They cause people to do 'moral' things, such as abstain from alcohol (like the Qur'an commands) and they cause people to do violent things, such as murder Jews and beat women (also what the Qur'an commands).
First off, I want to say that you definately have a point. Muslims, even relatively educated Western muslims, tend to be touchy. That being said, not all of these guys are hypocrites. Going after a tiny rediculous cult like scientology and going after a the second largest belief system in the world are two very different things, despite the fact that the latter has unquestionably hurt humanity more than the former.
Also, the racism sites tend to be much less serious in tone than the anti-muslim sites. NSMB is not a serious comment to the effect that African-Americans steal bicycles. Even funny anti-muslim sites carry a bit more punch, because they're trying to make a point.
BTW, I'm no muslim. I'm an atheist who lives near D.C.
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