Pale Blue Dot (an atheist's view - tiny update)
Created on: September 27th, 2006
Damn that's a lot of comments. I've responded at http://skeptobot.blogspot.com - but that is just a quick rant. I will put a more professional post there later. It also has the picture & quote in full.
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And off up and coming, well that was fun whilst it lasted. It's not meant to argue his points. I also state that I think he should be allowed to make his sites. I am against banning him. I just wanted to make a site about the beauty an atheist *can* see - to go against his "all athiests are infidels that hate the world" sites. Nothing more. That and I think the site stands on its own.
You show there is still some intelligence in YTMND. I also believe that we shouldn't banned christains-or any other religon- from posting their views. In my opinon, the internet was made for this. To Share eachother's views on politics, religon, and many other things..... Its also a series a tubes :P
What the hell people, he just put a Carl Sagan quote. What little he did create was poorly done and at odds with the same quote you find so great. Don't five it just because he is on your side of the argument, thats just as bad as spamming money to get it on the top sponsored list. It seems on this website the religious have the money, while the anti-religious have the numbers. You ask them not to abuse the resource they have, and so you too should heed this advice.
Make no mistake- Sagan's is a lovely writing, but it doesn't deal with the ugliness of this YTMND (Or the meaning of beauty to him- Rather, it is a piece made to warn, to inspire- to astonish its reader and make them realize how small they really are and how much we must value our home, because it is our only home- But nothing is mentioned of its beauty). Annoying, unfitting music, Comic Sans MS, and a straw man argument of your own are the repulsive icing on this putrid cake of filth.
Nice job, aside from the flaming. In my opinion, this YTMND shouldn't be about who's right or wrong. No matter how hard anyone here tries, no one is going to prove anyone else wrong. Name calling doesn't prove a thing. You can't prove anyone right, nor anyone wrong. However, that being said, I know what I belive, and that's that. Anway, again, aside from flaming religious beliefs, this YTMND is beautiful. To realize that in this universe, we are not even a spec on a spec, that is an amazing thought.
I was offended, being a religous person, a protestant Christian, in fact, but that's aside the point. Now I am not biased on the fact that you are an athiest, and to prove that, I'll give you a three. but seriously, if this whetstone guy (proof of God ytmnd or something, right?) is such an idiot, let everybody else downvote his site, but don't waste a site to declaring that he is an idiot. He is somewhat of an idiot for trying to make a majority of ytmnd believe in God,because that is not humanly possible.
A purely atheistic view properly follows what can be derived with current knowledge and logic, leading (by logic) to belief in reductionism and promotion or adoption of radical social Darwinism. A secular humanist is not a pure atheist in the sense that he places his faith in the human race and cherished altruistic values rather than in the evolution of it into something superior- To abandon altruism and care only for oneself or oneself's mates- to ensure only the survival of the strong.
TightenUpTheGraphics Said: "And on a side note, atheists and
agnostics (myself of the latter group) are morally superior to religious
nuts, because we act good to others without having to be threatened with
torture and hellfire." ---------------------- That is truely sad if you think that is why we belive in God, if I were to commit an act that would save many and at the same time destroy my soul or cast it into eternal dark or torture, I would still do it for the good of the world and its people.
You. Are. My. Hero. Thank you, Whetstone is an ignorant jackass who thinks he can just shout his belittlings from the skies and rain the wrath of God onto YTMND. This YTMND was eye-opening and a little depressing almost. It blew me away. I can honestly say, that now that I have seen this site, I view life in a whole new fashion. Thank you. ...Also, c*cks :D
So many people miss the point of this. The idea is that you don't have to be religious to love the world and to look at it in a myriad of different ways. Religion is not something required to have a happy, fufilling life or to accept the reality of the world. Well, anyways, that's what I took away from it, though I'm sure everyone should get something different out of it.
It is ignorant to assume religeous people belive in God to get a *free ticket* to heaven. There are these kinds of people in both parties, atheists that don't belive in God so they can commit horrible acts and never be judged, and at the same time religeous people that follow the everlasting covenant and other belifes because they want a ticket to heaven.
Had I been an atheist, I would (as per the bias of my social conditioning) choose Secular Humanism as my philosophy to avoid having to acknowledge the ugly logical entailments of purely logical atheism. I am, however, a former Christian turned agnostic, and believe in pursuing the answers to the origins and reason behind the existence of the universe rather than assuring myself of an uncertain truth, be it of a God creating this plane or of it coming into being arbitrarily...
1 for calling Whetstone a douche bag and then quoting someone who is advocating peace. there are surely good atheists who contribute but youve made it clear in this YTMND that you aren't one of them. Also, 1 for calling creationists ignorant when you're an atheist. Agnostic is all fine and dandy but atheists who call creationists ignorant are just funny.
... awesome well done and makes and excelent point. Carl Sagan is a true patron of freethinking views. I agree completely.
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan
"1'd for mentioning whetstone"
I am sick of this kind of sh*t. ATTENTION *SSH*L*ES! Arguments happen. *gasp* If there's room on YTMND for preaching there's room for this. Just because you can't stand anything other than laughing doesn't mean you one YTMNDs that are serious. Oh, and by the way, YTMND is only a humorous site because people make humorous YTMNDs. If someone does something different that's their choice.
This is not a tribute to Carl Sagan, but rather uses a beautiful writing of his and twists it to the ignorant ends of its creator. PLEASE, for the sake of Whomever or Whatever it is you believe in, TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE QUALITY OF THIS SITE INSTEAD OF RATING IT BASED ON YOUR PERSONAL RELIGIOUS OR PHILOSOPHICAL OPINION. That is not free thinking nor does it promote free thinking- it proves instead that you are a slave to your own closed mind.
jmac85, what does that have to do with the existence of God in any way shape or form? Our planet is small, whoo. That has absolutely nothing to do with whether God is out there or not. Also I ask you, why would we require a planet any bigger? @ Calidus, there are always .. well deadsh*ts and these kinds of places on both sides of the arguement that downvote for no reason, just try to ignore them as it is not possible to change a person that does not want to be changed.
A good, decent usage of Carl Sagan. Not wholly appropriate for YTMND, being as this IS a humor-based site, not a soapbox. My issue with most atheists stems from that fact that they tend to be just as narrow-minded as the slap-happy rabid Christians. You spout your 'logic' and demand that anything outside it cannot be true, simply because you don't believe in it. My personal believes are as follows:
(continued from above) With the amount of free-form chaos out there, the random happenings, the exciting discoveries, to find that over and over and over again that there are RULES laid out for the universe to follow, without exception, makes me wonder at the idea of a grand design. This is not to say that theories about there being a God are correct, or even that a full lack of God is correct - but to deny one or the other for the sake of "being right" is a little silly. I would rather keep my mind open.
I really liked this ytmnd because I too am fascinated by space, but your ignorance of religion is wrong. Unlike macro-evolution, space exploration does not contradict the bible. It's extremely small minded not to believe in such things. I'm not saying that what whetstone is doing is right, but you should ask your self what you have to lose by following a religion... nothing. Your apology was cool although unneccisary if that's how you feel about him (he's an extreme nutjob IMO).
I must ask you, as an atheist - What's so beautiful in being insignificant, in being alone, in having no definite purpose? What's so great about your view? What does this picture do for you but remind you of your insignificance and lack of purpose? I live for a God who is greater than the natural universe. I may as well cease to exist without Him, as shown in this picture. So what do you live for? Is it confined to that pale blue dot?
oh and "Sorry, the *we are so small and insignificant therefore there is no God*
theory is not a good one and has nothing in it save just that. It is the
way you see it, I see it as *Gee, all that space and God focuses on US?
Damn we must be increbibly important beings*." This has absolutely nothing to do with what he is saying.
"I must ask you, as an atheist - What's so beautiful in being insignificant,
in being alone, in having no definite purpose? What's so great about your
view? What does this picture do for you but remind you of your
insignificance and lack of purpose? I live for a God who is greater than
the natural universe. I may as well cease to exist without Him, as shown
in this picture. So what do you live for? Is it confined to that pale
blue dot?" It shows the reality of things - that we only have one planet to live.
It didn't take atheism to build the voyager (certainly, though, a willingness to question long standing religious beleifs, ala copernicus). To me, an admitted atheist, this is a wonderful ytmnd. But it's existance and popularity, along with that of similar counters to whetstone, may effectively signal the theological-philosophical cat being let out of the bag. This could all ed as a positive, provided that tempers don't run too high, and we try our best to find ways to talk to, rather than around each->
And another thing. About this rebutting or not rebutting whetstone. Fundamentally, now that almost everyone into the controvery knows that you can't PROVE or DISPROVE the existance of god by now, a sentimental reference would be the most effective means of trying to advocate a viewpoint. After all, the mass of people beleive things regardless of their "provability", and make judgements from sentimentally influenced inductive leaps (including some aesthetic, moral, and most political beleifs).
I agree with OmniIcyshelf in that this ytmnd is presented in a biased manner and some of the "omg this site is so good" bs coming from people is ridiculous. However, I don't agree with his whole logical atheism leads directly to social darwinism etc... but this ytmnd is in poor taste. Also, people looking to disprove the existence of God are in for a long fight as most logicians and philosophers will tell you that it is logically impossible to do. Good luck.
I always find it interesting that atheists call themselves "freethinkers", when they chain themselves down to their own perceptions. Yes, the earth is a speck of dust in a sunbeam, but it is still inside the box. When one stops trying to put God in the box, then we realize how much greater He is than us, and even the Universe. The absence of evidence is never the evidence of absence.
The point I would make regarding the vastness of space is that it by no means justifies a belief in god and it by no means justifies a belief that there is no god. It exists. It is vast. We can't really tell you at this point when it came about or if it has always been or if it comes and goes cyclically (which is to say that it always has been), but it is. Also, I see no reason to believe in the Humanist "affirmation of human dignity" but this doesn't logically lead to social darwinism, either.
"A rebuttal of Whetstones idiocy by showing the beauty a group of predominately atheist people can achieve." I don't see any beauty here, but, you know, beauty is purely subjective so it's really not that hard for an atheist or anyone to find beauty. Some people think blades of grass are beautiful. I guess I should go and make a secular ytmnd about grass and how it proves that god doesn't exist?
While I'm on a role: "atheists are morally superior because they're not motivated merely by a fear of god to be moral" ---> If we don't get these moral beleifs an d compulsions, as atheists, from a fear of god, where do we get them. Obviously, for them to be so compelling and universal, and for newly born atheists from a religion to not go on a worry free given spree when given the chance to not be caught, there must be something about humanity other than mere considered beleif for us to hold so ->
"I always find it interesting that atheists call themselves "freethinkers",
when they chain themselves down to their own perceptions. Yes, the earth
is a speck of dust in a sunbeam, but it is still inside the box. When one
stops trying to put God in the box, then we realize how much greater He is
than us, and even the Universe. The absence of evidence is never the
evidence of absence." Like I said, strong atheism is an untenable claim. Weak atheism is a natural consequence of an absence of evidence.
-> stongly to these. Same goes for the argument for belief in god from maintainence of morality (it seems to be that such socially encouraged, non-emphirical beleifs can go both in favor of moral compassion and against it. Certainly in the governmental realm, they've gone very vividly towards the latter on numerous occasions).
All the pro-religion arguments here are all faulty. The arguments don't prove god exists, they take the stance of assuming god exists and then use that assumption to prove he exists. Much like the bible being right because the bible says it's right. Example (Paraphrased) "God made the whole universe so therefore he exists." Religious folk don't have any proof. +5 for everything about this site.
A. Insulting peoples' faith is no way to earn 5's, B. You're assuming that all Christians reject science, which is an assumption that couldn't be farther from the truth, C. Where the heck does he get the notion that there's no sign of help? Is such a gifted mind really so short-sighted as to assume that help could only be found among the stars? Can't he see the wonderful things going on right in front of him? This dude's not a skeptic, he's a pessimist.
Religious YTMNDs have no place on this site, period. It shouldn't make a difference what religion, but it seems that anyone on this site who doesn't believe in a God has some kind of special entitlement to impose their views on and disparage the views of others. In short, if you're going to talk about being open-minded, be it.
There's a large universe out there and mankind is still chained to our planet, although it's not that our planet is such a sad place to be.. it'll be nice to live amongst the stars someday. I do hope mankind goes far, but I doubt I'll see it all in my lifetime. I believe in God and I keep my faith, but I never found Him through a Bible... it just came to me one day when I was watching the stars. Either way, it's all beautiful as is this YTMND. I'd rather see th light enlightening us than blinding.
"The absence of evidence is never the evidence of absence."
No one is claiming that it is. The absence of evidence is simply a good enough reason to say "there is no reason to believe your claims."
Atheism isn't an ideology: it's the lack of a PARTICULAR ideology: theism. Non-believers are thus because they don't have reason to believe the claims of some.
Hey man great job, very powerful stuff to put out there in such a religious world. I like the fact that you added all of the generations of people and all of our loved ones into this ytmnd, and i really really liked the fact that your trying to promote peace between fellow human beings, but im gunna give you a 3 because i'm a catholic and i believe in God and i believe that God did make the universe.
Umm... I'd like an answer on this... How does my being a christian have anything to do with a general killing people? I don't kill people, yet your presentation makes it seem as if I am a murderer, that your beleifs are correct above all else; And yet, how do your points prove anything for that matter? I fail to see how the a picture of earth from far away gives you a philosophical back-door to saying there is no god. i would like some sort of response.
Wow. Just wow. Never, not once, did I ever see Whetstone make a deliberate attack on people who disagreed with him and his views. Yet here you are, with, guess what, a deliberate attack on him and his views. Way to go. The person who believes in God gives us the rational point of view while the athiest resorts to "u suk lol" as a rebuttal. I will not vote on this because I quit watching after "Whetstone is a douchebag" about ten seconds in. But I will say that you, Lave, have done a shameful job here.
oh and lusciouspear? what did you just say Whetty was? A bad name!! *gasp* hmmm.. lets look at your post: "And Whetty is a douche because he thinks we are bad people."..... Who is "we" and why did you just be hypocritical like that? thats like being racist by stereotyping *insert ethnicity* people as racist, and then calling someone racist when you've never met them before just because they are *insert ethnicity*.
this site isn't any better than whetstones. Rather than use faulty logic to prove religion (as he does) you use poor logic to disprove it. Basically, your YTMND says, "Hey, look, obviously we are cosmically meaningless" and then "so, let's be nice to each other." What difference does it meake what we do, if we're just a tiny speck in the cosmos?
Incidentally, for those who probably will say "lol religious fanatic n00b us suxxorz!!1!", I'm not even a strong Chrsitian. I believe in God and Jesus and take Jesus' to heart but I also believe in science. I believe in a set of laws that governs the universe logically, I also believe that God is the ultimate lawmaker and ultimate creator. I believe He created the universe but allowed evolution and that to occur as scientists believe. So if you want to attack me on my views, you're attacking your own.
I don't understand why you rip on religion like everyone who believes in God acts as Whetstone did. There is nothing inherently athiest about a reflection of ones self, and ones home; these are universal feelings. Do not cheapen their power by using your message to undermine another. Your point is well made, and well received.
uhh.. madcat? science isn't the opposite of christianity dude... so you didn't have to say " I beleive in science too." because technically science is things that aren't commonplace in the religious debate (ex. Newton's laws of Physics) The key is that we need to approach hings, unbiased, or at least with a chunk of the others view. ... and enryt same to you as to DragonWok
anyone who still thinks that anything on our planet matters even the slightest bit in the cosmic scheme of things after viewing this YTMND must have delusions of grandeur beyond anything I could comprehend. Get over yourselves christians, the sooner you and other religious folk stop your pointless arguing and claims of superiority, the sooner we can live peacefully on this incredibly small dot.
and one more thing... if your beleifs are of life being a random stroke of luck, there being no god, and when we die thats it, then I must ask why you care if someone has a religion or not. Surely, if there is no god, then what we do in our life will not affect our end,( us rotting in our graves by an athiest point of view). So, I ask, please, all the flamers, all the immature people, there is no war, it does not matter, shut up and drop it. let it be. stop insulting each other.
All athiests: just leave the religious alone and they'll be fine if you silently call them ignorant. and don't say OMG thats hippocritical.
Anyone with a religion: Don't force your beleifs on others. If someone wants to check out what your religion is about, then thats great for you. But, be silent otherwise and just think " Man, are they missing out!"
And finally I'll say this : Site description:"A rebuttal of Whetstones idiocy by showing the beauty a group of predominately atheist people can achieve." HA! nice achievement! a flamewar and a wonderful splitting of sides!!! HAHA! also a wonderful yelling of "Douche" back and forth. Bravo! Peace and love right there!! isn't it? no!
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