mad world
posted by max on December 25, 2007 at 06:31:06 PM
merry christmas amigos,
I know I haven't made much fanfare of this holiday season. I forgot to put up the Holiday YTMNDs section, I didn't even add any sparkly decorations to the front page. I know I always talk about how busy I am, but I've been spending a good deal of time reflecting on YTMND's history and future. I was thinking about doing up some big "ghosts of YTMND past, present, and future" deal but instead I'll just get right to the meat of it, plus I'm hungry.
The last month has been bizarre to say the least. I had dinner with moot the other night. Turns out we face a lot of similar issues. Neither of us makes any money and have hundreds of thousands of people who take us for granted. This made me feel a bit better about YTMND's situation, but it also really got me thinking about what YTMND will be in five years, or even five months for that matter.
It's been a almost eight months since I've updated the TODO list. In that time I've spent hundreds if not thousands of hours discussing various pieces of YTMND with just about anyone willing to discuss it. One of the major themes, and the bits I get the most criticism for is the moderation system (or lack thereof).
One thing I've slowly realized over the last few months is that when I started, I really had no clear idea of what the goals of a good moderation system really were. I had designed a grandiose system with hundreds of complex doodads and widgets, but for what? I'm trying hard not to mention Shirky's article, but I keep going back to it.
The main focus of the moderation system was to make sure sites were always moderated and classified properly, but that doesn't really matter at all. I have poured a huge amount of my time and resources that have been poured into a system that does all of the wrong things really well. One thing I've learned from a decade of making dumb websites is that you need to know when it is easier to scrap something and start from scratch than it is to change it to do what you want.
So that being said, I have updated the TODO (and even made a parser that makes a "pretty version") in a massive way. Over 1000 lines added, 55,000 characters of every idea I have had, heard or thought was worth remembering in the last year, as well as a large amount of information I'm publishing in hopes that we can start a dialogue on how the site should be.
This is your christmas gift from me. You have the chance to decide how YTMND will turn out. The time for criticism, bickering and general mockery is over friends. If you have any fondness left for YTMND, now is the time to speak up and help to decide where to go from here. I can't (and won't) do it alone.
So over the next week, check out the TODO, and spend some time thinking about the pieces that are most important or relevant to you. Comment on things you want or don't like. Be constructive. Be a productive member of society, because as soon as I sober up from new years, I'm going to be seriously shaking shit up.
So a good deal of the starbar bugs are fixed, but it hasn't been implemented everywhere yet. If there are any remaining show-stoppers let me know. Also I did another thing I never thought I'd do and made a quick Facebook widget which does dumb stuff like tell your friends when you make or favorite a YTMND and adds pretty junk to your otherwise bland profile. Check it out if you actually have any friends to share with.
Have a good holiday and a happy new year. Don't drink and drive.
-Max
I know I haven't made much fanfare of this holiday season. I forgot to put up the Holiday YTMNDs section, I didn't even add any sparkly decorations to the front page. I know I always talk about how busy I am, but I've been spending a good deal of time reflecting on YTMND's history and future. I was thinking about doing up some big "ghosts of YTMND past, present, and future" deal but instead I'll just get right to the meat of it, plus I'm hungry.
The last month has been bizarre to say the least. I had dinner with moot the other night. Turns out we face a lot of similar issues. Neither of us makes any money and have hundreds of thousands of people who take us for granted. This made me feel a bit better about YTMND's situation, but it also really got me thinking about what YTMND will be in five years, or even five months for that matter.
It's been a almost eight months since I've updated the TODO list. In that time I've spent hundreds if not thousands of hours discussing various pieces of YTMND with just about anyone willing to discuss it. One of the major themes, and the bits I get the most criticism for is the moderation system (or lack thereof).
One thing I've slowly realized over the last few months is that when I started, I really had no clear idea of what the goals of a good moderation system really were. I had designed a grandiose system with hundreds of complex doodads and widgets, but for what? I'm trying hard not to mention Shirky's article, but I keep going back to it.
The main focus of the moderation system was to make sure sites were always moderated and classified properly, but that doesn't really matter at all. I have poured a huge amount of my time and resources that have been poured into a system that does all of the wrong things really well. One thing I've learned from a decade of making dumb websites is that you need to know when it is easier to scrap something and start from scratch than it is to change it to do what you want.
So that being said, I have updated the TODO (and even made a parser that makes a "pretty version") in a massive way. Over 1000 lines added, 55,000 characters of every idea I have had, heard or thought was worth remembering in the last year, as well as a large amount of information I'm publishing in hopes that we can start a dialogue on how the site should be.
This is your christmas gift from me. You have the chance to decide how YTMND will turn out. The time for criticism, bickering and general mockery is over friends. If you have any fondness left for YTMND, now is the time to speak up and help to decide where to go from here. I can't (and won't) do it alone.
So over the next week, check out the TODO, and spend some time thinking about the pieces that are most important or relevant to you. Comment on things you want or don't like. Be constructive. Be a productive member of society, because as soon as I sober up from new years, I'm going to be seriously shaking shit up.
So a good deal of the starbar bugs are fixed, but it hasn't been implemented everywhere yet. If there are any remaining show-stoppers let me know. Also I did another thing I never thought I'd do and made a quick Facebook widget which does dumb stuff like tell your friends when you make or favorite a YTMND and adds pretty junk to your otherwise bland profile. Check it out if you actually have any friends to share with.
Have a good holiday and a happy new year. Don't drink and drive.
-Max
Add a comment
Reading the TODO list the most important things I read were the sound player since QuickTime killed WAV looping and broke MP3's a little bit more than usual a few updates ago. That and the moderation system of course however as you have stated you basically spent a sh*t load of time on something that doesn't accomplish too much in the long run. What I feel YTMND needs more than moderation maintained by people is to moderate itself. Perhaps limit the amount of sites a user can make per X amount of time.
To me that would not only help reduce sites that could be considered personal or inside jokes but it would also help users who try to bring valuable, entertaining and comedic content to YTMND think their idea out a little bit more and make them take into consideration "if I post this site now I can't post another one until the defined time passes." And as I thought that out I thought of certain users that shouldn't apply to and others it should...so I'm conflicted on my own input.
Would it be possible to automatically retire sites from appearing on Top Viewed after they're more than a week old? I figured that it would make sense since Sponsored and Top Rated work on a weekly basis as well. Besides, I've seen like five sites from over a year ago show up there in the past two weeks.
the [ FILE SYSTEM / ASSET MANAGEMENT ] section is interesting... the site-size thing sounds really cool. I'm not so sure about some of the other stuff, though.
I am certainly against child pornography, so I guess I don't really have a reason to be against the MPAA or RIAA, but I"m still iffy about the searching records thing (especially since all the "Pizza Baby" things from last night would result in searches and arrests).
The "Original Creator" thing is nice, but would people use it inappropriately? I mean, we all know there are people who will make a site and for image and sound origins write "you suck" and "big balls," so what's saying they won't do that and say it's their own pic/music? Plus, you can give yourself credit for either, as some people do.
hello this is Boris from Russia and we my family love ice cream we buy the Bryer vanilia every 3rd tuesday of every 4 month when it come to market. on some special time my wife she freeze yogurt made from our goat and we have ice cream made at my home yes. My daughter natalia wants flovor of straws berrys and my son he wants the exsotic chocolatee and my wife she want a mule.
Fix your bugs, be less vague.. Wtf do you mean "tell me the direction" THat makes no sense. And fix your bugs. Get some competent mods.. You know, ones that know how to follow your very simple posting rules.. And fix the f*cking bugs. Oh hey fix the voting bug you said you fixed. You didn't fix it. Mods. Bugs. Mods. Bugs. Is it getting through to you yet?
Moderation: Anyone abusing the voting system (alts/chaindownvoting/etc) should have their all votes removed and voting on their account locked. They can still view sites and make sites, just can't vote. People abusing alts should have their alts deleted and main account locked. People abusing comments should have their ability to comment locked and all comments they have made removed. People abusing site creation would have that locked. Penalties can be permanent or for a certain length of time.
I think a good idea would be an option to set a field in a site to list another site as an "inspiration." As most sites and based around something else, being able to track upwards through them for the chain of humor without depending on the image/audio source being filled in linking the other site would be nice. The lists seem like another way of allowing each person to do this manually for their own use. The lists look good too.
The site is fine, it's the people that are destroying it. You need lots of moderation. It's just a matter of finding dependable ones. I don't think he should use current ytmnd users as mods. A small troop should suffice, if there were 48 of them each would only have to dedicate a half hour a day to monitor incoming sites...
All they have to do is follow the guidelines for what is and is not allowed. This way we get less drunk friends sites, less 4chan trash, and everything is NSFW'd properly. I feel this is the first step in getting undesireables off the site.. With certain TYPES of people gone, we will have an evironment more condusive to creativity and an exchange of opinions.
Hey Max,
I've been floating around YTMND for awhile now and never commented. Anyhow, I have a few opinons regarding YTMND. From a simplified standpoint, I think the site already has a lot going for it. Obviously, millions of people view it. Thus that need is fulfilled. It sounds to me like now is the time to seek investors or perhaps an "Angel" to float startup cash. Once startup money is secured along with a board of directors, cash will be available to seek monetization.
Secondly, with startup potential, perhaps the money needed to manage "legal affairs" aka-problems with site material that could otherwise cause problems. Secondly, what initially drew me to the site was the random craziness that seemed present in the material. I have to admit that over the last year, the content of the submitted pieces have become a bit more... tame. tame is safe, but tame also means that what drew many to the site-good or bad- is missing.
Lastly, as I mentioned before, you already have several of the most vital ingredients necessary for commercial success: Brand, concept, content, and an audience. The only lacking thing is monetization. So in my opinion, now is time to hit the street and do some searching for investors. I've been in Silicon Valley for years and been part of a number of startups. You have the idea and the concept. Forget the whole monitoring system and focus on the business aspect of the company first.
Maybe the "black" FUs (it's funy becuse its an aberviation of curse wordz that make us lok odler like camel cigars lol!!!) aren't really featured. Or are they? Or is it involving the tattoo thing? Or is it some sort of undercover set of Featured Users made to look like they aren't even though they show up on the front page so they really aren't undercover? ....I think I broke my brain.
Max, I wrote a list of ideas, but most of them have already been discussed in this news section. Especially the part about dealing with alts. I really like the idea of taking away voting and comment abilities from problematic people. I don't want to be redundant so I'll add this about the Hall of Fame. Set thresholds to be eligible. Like a site has to have over 500,000 views, over 4.25 rating, 2000 votes and 200 favorites.
Hey max, if you're redesigning the front page I think a good course of action would be to give users a customizable layout color option, so that we can choose whatever layout color we like. If people spend time around their favorite color, then they'll most likely want to spend more time on this site. It's subtle and crazy, but it should be pretty effective. Also, in the old days sites in the Top Viewed would almost always get around 20k views and 700 votes. Now Top Viewed sites are lucky to get even a
quarter of that amount. I realize this is largely due to a decrease in visitors, but it might also be because of the location of Top Viewed on the page. Right now it is scrunched down in the corner and people would likely see it last. Before in the old layout it dominated the main page. It was difficult to even browse the main page without even accidentally clicking a site in Top Viewed. Here's an example: http://web.archive.org/web/20060423074540/http://www.ytmnd.com/
Of course, these ideas are aimed mostly towards people just passing by the site, not as much people who are already addicted. Yet, if we draw in more people, then the addicts that make good sites will have much more of a motivation, and then more people would come because of that, and hopefully it would cause some circular effect (in a perfect world, but let's remain optimistic). Things were pretty much like that in the old layout.
I think a good way to get it back to the old layout would be to switch Featured Users with Top Viewed, and put Top Rated above Recently Created. Top Rated and Top Viewed are supposed to have the currently best sites, but they're at the bottom of the page. Instead the first thing visitors see is Recently Created and Featured Users, both of which almost always have bad sites. (I know about Customized Layouts, but people visiting the site definitely will not)
I'm always a bit surprised that icons next to users names aren't used. Something similar to BBReports, little 8x8 or 16x16 icons to denote what they're a part of. YTMND could have stuff like active account for over x years, donater, average score over y stars, moderator, "featured" user, YTMND tattoo'd user, etc.
Yeah, get the search thingy back. Loved it.
Also, there's like a billion site, but most of them never gets viewed. They are in the "recently created" box for some time, and after that, they just disappear(I don't think anyone ever uses the "random ytmnd's" box). A shame. There must be loads of worthwhile sites buried in the murky depths of this site...
+- "Hardcore mode" option.
+-- When you sign up, you must make one site, if it gets a rating under 2.5
+-- for a period of 24 hours, your account gets deleted.
That would be f*cking awesome haha.
Also you could use the section of sites rated 4 or higher (And maybe do it by number of views to because alot of big ytmnds are low rated but highly viewed) to redo the hall of fame. Have an option to vote the site into the hall of fame.
Also making the turning on or off NSFW sites thing a little more